Output Movement: Rhythm FX

[Sound Author]

Sinevibes just called. Their demos will now play Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" every minute...

...on the minute.

Honestly, that would have been preferable

...white....noise.....PLEASE......

[Sound Author]

Movement crashed FL Studio again. Yay for no crash reports in FL!

I'd run Movement in Ableton...but y'know, I gotta draw the line at 200% CPU. I'm just weird I guess.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Sinevibes just called. Their demos will now play Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" every minute...

...on the minute.

Honestly, that would have been preferable

...white....noise.....PLEASE......

[Doug1978]

Typical KVR - 3 pages in with various moaning about lack of a demo, and just a quick read of the developer's webpage will show this policy.
To all extents and purposes that is a demo.

Are you for real? That can hardly be considered a demo.

Go on then, let's have it.

What's the actual difference in terms of cost and time, ultimately?


1) I get a demo (usually time-limited or with horrible silences in it, though occasionally fully functioning), and test it out.
If I like it I buy it.
If I don't like it I don't lose any money.

2) I buy a product and I test it out (having already viewed it working well in videos, read up about its features and listened to its audio demos etc).
If I like it, I keep it.
If I don't like it, I get my money fully refunded and I don't lose any thing.

Output are a trustworthy company - or do you think they won't pay you back your money?

Sure, I prefer real demos - I've tried enough of them out before purchasing software previously.

But in this case, at least the developer is coming up with something alternative.

I take the point that you don't like this plugin.
And you're never going to buy it - you've made that explicitly clear with your rubbishing remarks over numerous pages here.

So are you for real?
What difference in terms of my money and time does this refunding approach ultimately make compared to having a demo (particularly ones which are usually time or feature limited)?

[Sound Author]

Typical KVR - 3 pages in with various moaning about lack of a demo, and just a quick read of the developer's webpage will show this policy.
To all extents and purposes that is a demo.

Are you for real? That can hardly be considered a demo.

Go on then, let's have it.

What's the actual difference in terms of cost and time, ultimately?


1) I get a demo (usually time-limited or with horrible silences in it, though occasionally fully functioning), and test it out.
If I like it I buy it.
If I don't like it I don't lose any money.

2) I buy a product and I test it out (having already viewed it working well in videos, read up about its features and listened to its audio demos etc).
If I like it, I keep it.
If I don't like it, I get my money fully refunded and I don't lose any thing.

Output are a trustworthy company - or do you think they won't pay you back your money?

Sure, I prefer real demos - I've tried enough of them out before purchasing software previously.

But in this case, at least the developer is coming up with something alternative.

I take the point that you don't like this plugin.
And you're never going to buy it - you've made that explicitly clear with your rubbishing remarks over numerous pages here.

So are you for real?
What difference in terms of my money and time does this refunding approach ultimately make compared to having a demo (particularly ones which are usually time or feature limited)?

Ultimately, there is no difference. Immediately, there is $150.00 difference.

I believe Doug1978 was referring to the latter.

[Numanoid]

The 14 days back money guarantee is a gimmick IMO.

Why not offer a demo with 14 days full usability, so much easier.

Money having to be paid, and then refunded, alot of extra work, that shouldn't be necessary.

Refunding is not free, paypal take a little fee of course.

[KTlin]

The 14 days back money guarantee is a gimmick IMO.
Why not offer a demo with 14 days full usability, so much easier.
Money having to be paid, and then refunded, alot of extra work, that shouldn't be necessary.
Refunding is not free, paypal take a little fee of course.

My thoughts exactly!

[Doug1978]

Indeed Sound Author.
(Though I think you meant to quote KTlin rather than me - Doug1978 - in your last sentence?).

Ultimately, there is no difference.

So quite why KTlin, and other KVR members, want to spend several posts over several pages criticizing a company for offering this alternative refund policy is crazy.
Not least because KTlin has stated as nauseum that he doesn't like the plugin and doesn't have any intention of buying it in the first place!!

Yes, I prefer demos because you can install/re-install etc them a few times before committing to a purchase.

However, if a company doesn't want to offer them (and I can understand why from their point of view) then it still seems like a pretty decent thing to offer customers a full-refund within two weeks, as Output do.

This is a typical KVR thread - people moaning for the sake of doing so.

If people don't like plugins, cool. But why do they need to run a developer into the ground at every opportunity??
Particularly when they're not even going to buy the plugin in the first place?
Gimmicks, my arse.

[Numanoid]

Particularly when they're not even going to buy the plugin in the first place?
Gimmicks, my arse.

But that is the proof that it is a gimmick.

If, as you claim, people are not gonna buy it in the first place, there is no need for an offer to return it

[Doug1978]

We'll have to differ on that Numanoid. You think it is a gimmick.
I think it is a generous offer by a sincere company.

If people are not going to buy it in the first place, then why on earth would they waste their time complaining about the lack of a demo?
Particularly when there is a reasonably good alternative on offer (as well as some videos and other info available to help us beforehand)?

It's bullshit.
And it's typical whinging KVR members gobbing off.

[Numanoid]

We'll have to differ on that Numanoid. You think it is a gimmick.
I think it is a generous offer by a sincere company.

I don't doubt Output is a sincere company.

But I still think offering money back instead of offering a demo, is a gimmick.

The definition of a gimmick is: "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade."

As more or less all devs offer demos instead of money back guarantees, Outputs refund policy is a gimmick as it attracts more attention being different that the "regular" way of going about things.

That is both good and bad.

[KTlin]

So quite why KTlin, and other KVR members, want to spend several posts over several pages criticizing a company for offering this alternative refund policy is crazy.
Not least because KTlin has stated as nauseum that he doesn't like the plugin and doesn't have any intention of buying it in the first place!!
...
This is a typical KVR thread - people moaning for the sake of doing so.
If people don't like plugins, cool. But why do they need to run a developer into the ground at every opportunity?? Particularly when they're not even going to buy the plugin in the first place?

What are you talking about?
Did you see my first post on this thread?

It seems to be an awesome plugin. Too bad there's no demo.

So where is this "KTlin has stated as nauseum that he doesn't like the plugin and doesn't have any intention of buying it in the first place" coming from?

It's bullshit.
And it's typical whinging KVR members gobbing off.

Again with the "typical KVR" stuff? It's the 3rd time you used that. We got it! KVR is typically nasty and full of "bullshit", and with horrible people writing "rubbishing remarks" and criticizing the plugins for no particular reason and "moaning for the sake of doing so" and they just like to "run the developers into the ground at every opportunity".
I think you need to relax.

[nordickvr]

Any way Movement can modulate our emotions?

(FR : LFOD - low frequency offence device)

[Audiority]

The 14 days back money guarantee is a gimmick IMO.
Why not offer a demo with 14 days full usability, so much easier.
Money having to be paid, and then refunded, alot of extra work, that shouldn't be necessary.
Refunding is not free, paypal take a little fee of course.

One word: R2R
They are used to release stuff as soon as they are officially released, causing serious damage.

[JC_]

We'll have to differ on that Numanoid. You think it is a gimmick.
I think it is a generous offer by a sincere company.

I don't doubt Output is a sincere company.

But I still think offering money back instead of offering a demo, is a gimmick.

The definition of a gimmick is: "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade."

As more or less all devs offer demos instead of money back guarantees, Outputs refund policy is a gimmick as it attracts more attention being different that the "regular" way of going about things.

That is both good and bad.

It most definitely is a gimmick but they also might not have the demo tech ready. A lot of people will buy and not get a chance to use it and end up past the 14 days. That's probably the beauty of it from the sellers POV.