New Arturia Plugins

[RTGraham]

Maybe my impression is wrong, but it seems to me the Synclavier was not the most musical devices, but more of a sound effects machine. I think I would have been more of a Fairlight and Emulator kind of person - if I had had the money back then

From what I've gathered, from working with people who used the Synclav extensively, it really all depended on who was using it and how they wanted to use it. Some of the "presets" were quite musical and evocative... the synth basses on a number of '80's pop records are distinctly Synclav, and the opening bell-melody sound on "Man In The Mirror" is reported to be a Synclav stock sound. I know people who used it for all kinds of sounds, sometimes for its distinct character, and sometimes to closely mimic an existing instrument. There are movie scores from the '80's where what you're hearing is a marriage of Synclav with live orchestral players, because by the time the Synclav mockup was done it became a useful blueprint to play along with for the actual session.

For the people who loved the Synclav, the EMU and Fairlight offerings seemed sub-par by comparison - but then there were people who chose the Fairlight instead and did great things with it. (Some of the fantastic Tears For Fears orchestrations, for example, are reportedly Fairlight.)

[machinesworking]

the new GUIs are great, but can I have my tooltips back please?

I guess I can used to the new GUI of the CS80V, but I am not sure about the JUP-8V.

As for the tool-tips, i think the values are now displayed in the 'status line' at the bottom of the window.

I think the CS80V is an improvement, specifically if you use a touch surface the spacing between the sliders is going to help. Mind made up, jumping in on this upgrade. Audiodeluxe has the only discount on the upgrade out there as of now, if anyone else is thinking about it.

 
Same price as with Arturia. .
 

If you're not signed in it is. Audiodeluxe is one of those sites that offer discount codes if you sign up for their site, same with jrr shop.

[resynthesis]

Zappa was, of course, a big user of Synclavier.

[machinesworking]

Maybe my impression is wrong, but it seems to me the Synclavier was not the most musical devices, but more of a sound effects machine. I think I would have been more of a Fairlight and Emulator kind of person - if I had had the money back then

From what I've gathered, from working with people who used the Synclav extensively, it really all depended on who was using it and how they wanted to use it. Some of the "presets" were quite musical and evocative... the synth basses on a number of '80's pop records are distinctly Synclav, and the opening bell-melody sound on "Man In The Mirror" is reported to be a Synclav stock sound. I know people who used it for all kinds of sounds, sometimes for its distinct character, and sometimes to closely mimic an existing instrument. There are movie scores from the '80's where what you're hearing is a marriage of Synclav with live orchestral players, because by the time the Synclav mockup was done it became a useful blueprint to play along with for the actual session.

For the people who loved the Synclav, the EMU and Fairlight offerings seemed sub-par by comparison - but then there were people who chose the Fairlight instead and did great things with it. (Some of the fantastic Tears For Fears orchestrations, for example, are reportedly Fairlight.)

IMO anyway the Synclavier was a much better FM synth than the Farlite or EMU, but those had bigger sound libraries for the sampling side. IMO it's a better FM synth than the DX7, much thicker sound.

[ZeePok]

the new GUIs are great, but can I have my tooltips back please?

I guess I can used to the new GUI of the CS80V, but I am not sure about the JUP-8V.

As for the tool-tips, i think the values are now displayed in the 'status line' at the bottom of the window.

I think the CS80V is an improvement, specifically if you use a touch surface the spacing between the sliders is going to help. Mind made up, jumping in on this upgrade. Audiodeluxe has the only discount on the upgrade out there as of now, if anyone else is thinking about it.

 
Same price as with Arturia. .
 

If you're not signed in it is. Audiodeluxe is one of those sites that offer discount codes if you sign up for their site, same with jrr shop.

 
And what is the discount price?

Or is that a secret? .
 

[blacktomcat666]

...but, is it a decent Synclavier emulation? I guess I'll see. I really don't need another synth but... well I'm mentally ill.

It's not an emulation, it's the actual Synclavier audio engine running in the Synclavier V.
We have partnered with Cameron Jones the original developer of the Synclavier.

Check the promotional video to get the full story behind it:

Hi Kevin -

Thanks for chiming in here. Part of the signature character of the Synclavier was the fact that there was no resampling / interpolation for repitching samples - the repitching was handled by having the hardware actually change the sample rate of the voice card. It was part of why a robust Synclav system needed so many voice cards installed, and it was also one of the reasons why the FM synthesis sounded so unique. Does the new Synclavier V implement some sort of virtual sample rate scaling to achieve this part of the character? I haven't seen mention of it in the video or on the web pages.

It doesn't look / sound as if this works with variable rate:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/l70natpj0j2x7ge ... iasing.mp3

The first example sweep is Synclavier V. The second is how variable rate system would sound (but also not perfect). This becomes worse when using complex waves and / or low resolution.

But running a variable rate system (including FM) within a VST environment is difficult / expensive and Synclavier V still has a large sweet spot.

[RTGraham]

...but, is it a decent Synclavier emulation? I guess I'll see. I really don't need another synth but... well I'm mentally ill.

It's not an emulation, it's the actual Synclavier audio engine running in the Synclavier V.
We have partnered with Cameron Jones the original developer of the Synclavier.

Check the promotional video to get the full story behind it:

Hi Kevin -

Thanks for chiming in here. Part of the signature character of the Synclavier was the fact that there was no resampling / interpolation for repitching samples - the repitching was handled by having the hardware actually change the sample rate of the voice card. It was part of why a robust Synclav system needed so many voice cards installed, and it was also one of the reasons why the FM synthesis sounded so unique. Does the new Synclavier V implement some sort of virtual sample rate scaling to achieve this part of the character? I haven't seen mention of it in the video or on the web pages.

It doesn't look / sound as if this works with variable rate:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/l70natpj0j2x7ge ... iasing.mp3

The first example sweep is Synclavier V. The second is how variable rate system would sound (but also not perfect). This becomes worse when using complex waves and / or low resolution.

But running a variable rate system (including FM) within a VST environment is difficult / expensive and Synclavier V still has a large sweet spot.

Mathias!
Glad to get your analysis - since you've been working on ATII, your evaluation of the new Synclavier V is definitely of interest to me. When you say that Synclavier V has a "large sweet spot," that would mean that it still sounds good / authentic as long as it isn't pushed too far with regard to repitching?

[4damind]

There are some problems with resizing. Here in Cubase the plugin container is not resized properly so I see a white window. Re-open the plugin fixes this.
The parameter values are displayed at the bottom of the plugin. Often you don't see the bottom and in combination with the resizing bug in Cubase sometimes you move a knob without seeing a value.
This was a bad design decision but can easily be fixed: add tooltips for every knob/slider to show the real value

For synced stuff like delays, the values are displayed in ms and not note values. Is this a bug or is there some hidden switch to show note values?

Some synth are still version 2, so I think they got "only" some different bitmap sets for different sizes. All synth having now a very good preset browser which is a big improvement.

For me the only interesting new plugin is the Synclavier. The organs.. hmm.. I've played a bit with the Farfisa and B3 and have no usage for it.

The big surprise is the Minimoog with the new filters. The GUI was for me not such a problem it was always big enough but it's good to have some more options.
The Jupiter 8 and CS80 are now a lot easier to use, same with the Moog Modular.
Prophet, Matrix, SEM... the interesting thing is for me also the new preset browser. I think resizing is not so important with this plugins.

[blacktomcat666]

Mathias!
Glad to get your analysis - since you've been working on ATII, your evaluation of the new Synclavier V is definitely of interest to me. When you say that Synclavier V has a "large sweet spot," that would mean that it still sounds good / authentic as long as it isn't pushed too far with regard to repitching?

Well, I'm no synclavier expert - I only know it from spec sheets and recordings like this one:

http://hucbald.com/Synclavier%20Works/S ... htmare.mp3

So decide by yourself... .

I think Arturia and Cameron Jones did their best to find a compromise between sound, features and usabilty / cpu load.

The structure of the plugin is a bit different from the Synclavier, some things are missing / reduced (like the frame looping). Other things where improved (driving modulator parameters from the timbre frame sequencer). And it features many tiny details of the original... like lowering the resolution of the waveform on harmonic level reduction.

To my ears the sound is similar as long as you don't try FMing complex waves with a high modulation index.

[RTGraham]

Well, I'm no synclavier expert - I only know it from spec sheets and recordings like this one:

http://hucbald.com/Synclavier%20Works/S ... htmare.mp3

So decide by yourself... .

I think Arturia and Cameron Jones did their best to find a compromise between sound, features and usabilty / cpu load.

The structure of the plugin is a bit different from the Synclavier, some things are missing / reduced (like the frame looping). Other things where improved (driving modulator parameters from the timbre frame sequencer). And it features many tiny details of the original... like lowering the resolution of the waveform on harmonic level reduction.

To my ears the sound is similar as long as you don't try FMing complex waves with a high modulation index.

The producer I work for full-time used to own a Synclav system and was pretty much an expert in its operation... I might go ahead and do the VC5 upgrade just to do it, but at the very least I'll download the Synclavier V demo and see what his ears and instincts tell us... Either it'll "feel" like a Synclav to him or it won't.

[felis]

Regarding GUI size, except for stand-alone versions, is there still a need for those built-in keyboards these days? Every DAW I have used so far had a superior piano roll. Just saying because the keyboard often wastes 1/5th to 1/3rd of the GUI, precious space that could be used for other things.
TAL for instance doesn't seem to include keyboards in his synths and uses the additional space to make very user-friendly GUIs. His sampler has a tiny keyboard, but probably only because of the special features of a sampler.

Using standalone and without an external hardware keyboard, the keyboards on the gui do the trick.

Some have you use the 'qwerty' keys, which also works for me.

[rod_zero]

I was looking forward to the modeled piano, very dissapointed in its sounds, is like pianoteq version 2. And since arturia doesn't commit R&D to improve existing instruments I doubt the Piano v would get better ever.

Pianoteq is still unrivaled.

[ghettosynth]

I was looking forward to the modeled piano, very dissapointed in its sounds, is like pianoteq version 2. And since arturia doesn't commit R&D to improve existing instruments I doubt the Piano v would get better ever.

Pianoteq is still unrivaled.

Interestingly, it's the only new thing that I like, but, I like it because I think that it's useful as a piano in dance music, I don't have an ear for solo pianos really, I don't care that much about them.

I agree with your assessment though regarding Arturia's focus.

[pocvecem]

Daniel Miller's Synclavier II was extensively used on DM albums Construction Time Again, Some Great Reward and Black Celebration.

[bmanic]

Site's working fine for me here. Seems like the upgrade price is right for sure. I'd pay $199 for a decent Synclavier emulation.

...but, is it a decent Synclavier emulation? I guess I'll see. I really don't need another synth but... well I'm mentally ill.

That's the one I'm all over as well, and I HATE arturia, but it's a computer based synth and not an analog model, how can they f that one up right? Plus, they got the original code and developer involved. It has to work.

Well, first of all, old digital DA conversion is not at all easy to model properly. So even if you recreate the actual digital synth engine itself, it will NOT immediately sound like all the classic records. In fact, it'll be pretty damn far from it. You need to model the whole processing chain like the DA -> FX/outboard -> tape.

EDIT: .. and it seems the digital synth engine itself isn't completely re-created either (see above posts about the resampling/sample rate change per card). I think it's safe to assume this VSTi isn't going to sound like the real deal. Doesn't mean it'll be bad though.

Just the DA converter model itself (and AD too if Arturia allows sampling and all that recording fluff that later Synclaviers were known for) would be something rather difficult to do properly.

So yeah, I don't have much faith in this synth as an emulation, even considering the promotional video.

Having said that, I do find the actual synthesis itself very intriguing. As long as you don't treat it as a historical object but rather as a fresh new synth you'll be fine.