New Arturia Plugins

[beely]

it will NOT immediately sound like all the classic records.

No synth emulation ever will, because you're comparing the raw sound of the instrument in your DAW, to very well known parts that have been in the world for years, arranged, played, recorded, processed and mixed by some of the best people in the industry, and heard through all kinds of flawed delivery systems ( vinyl, AM/FM radio, cassette etc).

Comparing to the original raw instrument would be a better test, but everyone just plays a few notes and goes "huh it sounds different to the record"..

In fact, it'll be pretty damn far from it. You need to model the whole processing chain like the DA -> FX/outboard -> tape.

Not just that. There is more involved than just the record chain.

[zerocrossing]

Hmm.. the fact Arturia is no longer allowed to wear the Jupiter name could point at the supposition that Roland is not so happy with Arturia.
I don't think it has to do with future use of the name itself; obviously Roland doesn't have to worry about the Jupiter tag.
And besides, why should they ask such a high prize for an upgrade of such an old product?
Suspicion rises

Well, now you have two companies making Jupiter 8 emulations. While Roland's is tied to hardware, they could very well be paving the road for a future software version like they did with the plug-outs. IMO, the Roland plug ins sound brilliant, but they're monophonic. An 8 voice System 100 plug in would bring any PC to it's knees. Assuming the System 1 can only run one of those at a time, if they did a System 2 with 8 voice polyphony, it would be pretty expensive. The Boutique does not have the same sound quality, IMO, which is especially apparent when you use cross mod. Anyway, processors are always getting faster so it would be smart for Roland to cozy up to its trademark for future products. Maybe in preparation they upped the cost of that license. It was probably a little short sighted to have sold it in the first place. If you own Arturia stuff, the upgrade price seems excellent to me, especially considering all you get.

I really think plug outs polyphony limitation was more because Roland thinks it is the proper way to make an realistic emulation. The system 1 plug in has similar consumption per voice as the Sh2 and the promars, the ones I tried. Obviously the system 1 plug out was hungry as hell using 4 voices (maybe that's why they no longer sell it), not very usable.

I think Roland won't release the plug outs of the monophonic synths as poly even in a bigger System 1, they will work the same as in the System 1.

But I would expect that if a bigger system 1 is in the works it will have double the DSP as the System 1 and the boutiques (which use the same DSP chip BTW) and can make use of the Jp08, JU106 and future poly plug outs with 8 voice polyphony. If not Roland be damned.

I suspect you might be right, but man, I can imagine a poly System 100 would be fan-f'n tastic. The System 1 engine is OK and good for it's non-analog style waveforms, but when doing basic saw/pulse stuff it leaves me wanting. I'd also buy a Juno or Jupiter plug out for sure, if they'd honor me by taking my money. Hell, the ProMars is a single osc mono Jupiter 4, eh? They're nearly there. In fact, if they did this, they'd sell more System 1ms if they implemented a way to poly chain them like they did the Boutiques. (I'd buy another one and use software anyway)

[zerocrossing]

Well poop me pants. I'm in then. How do you get around the 100 kHz sample rate?

I think you are thinking of the later generation Synclavier (eg, 3200/6400 systems with the VP/K keyboard), that offered 100KHz sampling, direct-to-disk recording and sequencing and the like (plus the synth stuff, though that wasn't really the headline feature by this point.)

This is not that - this is the earlier generation Synclavier II, which was an FM/additive synthesiser (and at some point added some sampling and sequencing and other computer software - but this was still early days).

So it's an FM/additive synthesiser, not the full-on post-production monster machines they later became with all the bells and whistles.

Ah, OK. I am thinking of the later gen model with the sampling and sequencing. Whatever was out in the mid 80s.

[zerocrossing]

Site's working fine for me here. Seems like the upgrade price is right for sure. I'd pay $199 for a decent Synclavier emulation.

...but, is it a decent Synclavier emulation? I guess I'll see. I really don't need another synth but... well I'm mentally ill.

That's the one I'm all over as well, and I HATE arturia, but it's a computer based synth and not an analog model, how can they f that one up right? Plus, they got the original code and developer involved. It has to work.

Well, first of all, old digital DA conversion is not at all easy to model properly. So even if you recreate the actual digital synth engine itself, it will NOT immediately sound like all the classic records. In fact, it'll be pretty damn far from it. You need to model the whole processing chain like the DA -> FX/outboard -> tape.

EDIT: .. and it seems the digital synth engine itself isn't completely re-created either (see above posts about the resampling/sample rate change per card). I think it's safe to assume this VSTi isn't going to sound like the real deal. Doesn't mean it'll be bad though.

Just the DA converter model itself (and AD too if Arturia allows sampling and all that recording fluff that later Synclaviers were known for) would be something rather difficult to do properly.

So yeah, I don't have much faith in this synth as an emulation, even considering the promotional video.

Having said that, I do find the actual synthesis itself very intriguing. As long as you don't treat it as a historical object but rather as a fresh new synth you'll be fine.

I think when you're dealing with emulations it's safe to say you should never consider it a historical object. For instance, when I first got CS80v I avoided a direct comparison to the original. It would only make me sad and I quite liked CS80v as it was. I still do.

[zerocrossing]

So, no remarks about the new installer? Horrible. No way to pause the process or resume it later. Or better yet, set up each install in it's own place prior to starting the process. My internet hiccupped and I got a corrupt SEMv file mid way through and I had to select just the ones that didn't install and I had to sit there and baby sit it. Somehow it forgot that I had already downloaded the others. Stupid. Some of us like to keep VA separate from our Synclavier, etc.

[beely]

Ah, OK. I am thinking of the later gen model with the sampling and sequencing. Whatever was out in the mid 80s.

Yep. While they did add basic sampling and some sequencing stuff to the Sync II, it was really the next generation Synclavier (with the V/PK sexy black poly aftertouch keyboard sourced from the Prophet T8) that became the big production workstation (that Trevor Horn et al) were using to build records in the mid 80s, alongside the Fairlight Series III.

MT_jun_1989_the_synclavi_large.jpg

[V0RT3X]

Here's a clip of the Synclavier Demo Tape in case anyone is interested. https://soundcloud.com/electronicsoundmagazine/side-1

Below is the other part of the Demo tape.
https://soundcloud.com/electronicsoundmagazine/side-2

[RTGraham]

 

If you're not signed in it is. Audiodeluxe is one of those sites that offer discount codes if you sign up for their site, same with jrr shop.[/quote]

Looks like the AudioDeluxe / PluginDiscounts price was only through the end of yesterday.

[machinesworking]

If you're not signed in it is. Audiodeluxe is one of those sites that offer discount codes if you sign up for their site, same with jrr shop.

Looks like the AudioDeluxe / PluginDiscounts price was only through the end of yesterday.

Yeah I screwed the pooch by waiting on that one until today. To be fair though the fact it had a discount was probably a mistake on Audiodeluxes' part that they ate financially.

[ChamomileShark]

can you simply download the demo of the Synclavier V or do need to download their security thing as well?

[Numanoid]

Yep. While they did add basic sampling and some sequencing stuff to the Sync II, it was really the next generation Synclavier (with the V/PK sexy black poly aftertouch keyboard sourced from the Prophet T8) that became the big production workstation (that Trevor Horn et al) were using to build records in the mid 80s, alongside the Fairlight Series III.

George Michael utilized a Synclavier 9600 system on the Faith tour, because it took too much time between songs to load AKAI discs

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/a ... s-0313.htm

[Numanoid]

can you simply download the demo of the Synclavier V or do need to download their security thing as well?

Think you can download the demo (scroll down on the page) from here:

https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals

[RTGraham]

can you simply download the demo of the Synclavier V or do need to download their security thing as well?

Think you can download the demo (scroll down on the page) from here:

https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals

I downloaded and installed the demo alongside my existing V4 installation. I'm on a different computer at the moment so I don't have the exact specifics in front of me, but the demo version, with no authorization, disables certain functions (like saving) and only works for a certain amount of time (20 minutes, I think) before needing to be unloaded and re-instantiated.

It's interesting - I have the UVI sample library modeled after the Synclav, and while it's immediately apparent that both products are descendants of the Synclavier, they have some inherent differences. The UVI sounds are beefier overall, and perhaps a bit more "processed" sounding to evoke not just the raw sound of the Synclav but the overall recorded experience - so that the user gets some of the gritty converter mojo. The Arturia model is generally a bit thinner by comparison, but also more malleable and fluid.

For me so far, playing the UVI on its own offers a nice Synclav-esque experience, but to play the UVI after playing the Arturia for a while makes the UVI suddenly feel a bit more static, more like a sample library than it previously had. Playing the Arturia on its own offers a nice Synclav-esque experience, but to play the Arturia after playing the UVI for a while makes the Arturia feel a bit less meaty, more like a computerized softsynth than it previously had.

Something right in the middle would be awesome. If the Arturia, based in modeling and utilizing actual Synclav code, could incorporate some of that converter mojo, and some kind of simulated sample rate scaling like the original Synclav voice cards, I think that might be the holy grail of Synclav plugins. As it is, they're both close, and they can certainly each be used to impart the classic Synclav character to a current production, but it feels like they could be just a bit more magical.

So far, since I already have the UVI library, playing with the Synclavier V model in demo mode doesn't make me feel like I absolutely need to purchase it... I think it's going to make more sense to see what discussion ensues over the coming weeks, and see what kind of updates come about.

[deastman]

Ah, OK. I am thinking of the later gen model with the sampling and sequencing. Whatever was out in the mid 80s.

Yep. While they did add basic sampling and some sequencing stuff to the Sync II, it was really the next generation Synclavier (with the V/PK sexy black poly aftertouch keyboard sourced from the Prophet T8) that became the big production workstation (that Trevor Horn et al) were using to build records in the mid 80s, alongside the Fairlight Series III.

MT_jun_1989_the_synclavi_large.jpg

Interesting about the keybed! I used both the T8 and the later generation Synclavier (neither one was mine, sadly) but never made the connection. That was a really nice weighted keyboard.

[Ingonator]

can you simply download the demo of the Synclavier V or do need to download their security thing as well?

Think you can download the demo (scroll down on the page) from here:

https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals

I downloaded and installed the demo alongside my existing V4 installation. I'm on a different computer at the moment so I don't have the exact specifics in front of me, but the demo version, with no authorization, disables certain functions (like saving) and only works for a certain amount of time (20 minutes, I think) before needing to be unloaded and re-instantiated.

It's interesting - I have the UVI sample library modeled after the Synclav, and while it's immediately apparent that both products are descendants of the Synclavier, they have some inherent differences. The UVI sounds are beefier overall, and perhaps a bit more "processed" sounding to evoke not just the raw sound of the Synclav but the overall recorded experience - so that the user gets some of the gritty converter mojo. The Arturia model is generally a bit thinner by comparison, but also more malleable and fluid.

For me so far, playing the UVI on its own offers a nice Synclav-esque experience, but to play the UVI after playing the Arturia for a while makes the UVI suddenly feel a bit more static, more like a sample library than it previously had. Playing the Arturia on its own offers a nice Synclav-esque experience, but to play the Arturia after playing the UVI for a while makes the Arturia feel a bit less meaty, more like a computerized softsynth than it previously had.

Something right in the middle would be awesome. If the Arturia, based in modeling and utilizing actual Synclav code, could incorporate some of that converter mojo, and some kind of simulated sample rate scaling like the original Synclav voice cards, I think that might be the holy grail of Synclav plugins. As it is, they're both close, and they can certainly each be used to impart the classic Synclav character to a current production, but it feels like they could be just a bit more magical.

So far, since I already have the UVI library, playing with the Synclavier V model in demo mode doesn't make me feel like I absolutely need to purchase it... I think it's going to make more sense to see what discussion ensues over the coming weeks, and see what kind of updates come about.

As long as you just need presets teh UVI library should be OK but if you want a proper synth to do your own sounds the arturia Synclavier seems to be a better choice. Synclavier It involves uite deep editing for teh additive and FM synthesis part including a bunch of layers. There is another edit page with multiple tabs/menus to do durher editing taht is not shown on teh two main edit pages.

The UVI library seems to use a combination of samples and the FM module incuded with MachFive hile there does not seem to be an option to do any additive waveform programming like in Synclavier V.
The editing options in UVI The Beast also seem to be quite limited.
Don't get me wrong, i got UVI Falcon and love it for it's insane and vesatile synth engine but concerning those sample based libraries i am not very sure if those are proper replacements for a fully programmable emulation. Again this also depends on if you want to program your own sounds.
I also got some Kontakt libraries from e.g. Synth Magic and Soniccouture and those work more like the synth they were based on, including the controls for oscilators, filter etc.

Arturia Synclavier V IMO seems to be a great and awesome sounding instrument on it's own, independent of how close it is to the real thing (which i never played with myself...). I see it more like a modern version of teh original hardware synth. Same is more or less also true for some other Arturia synths, including e.g. the Hybrid synth in Prophet V that in this way did never exist as hardware.

On the other hand it could be worth to get both Arturia Synclavier V and UVI The Beast if you could afford both. The Beast at the full price seems to be quite expensive but they got sales from time to time and Arturia Synclavier V when bought as a single instrument is quite expensive too while as part of the V-Collection 5 upgrade is more or less a bargain IMO. Also the full price of V-Collection 5 that now includes around 17 plugins is far from being very expensive IMO. In that respüect it is comparable to e.g. Komplete 10 where teh single plugins are much too expensive while having the bundlw is mre like a bargain.
Of course this also depends on how many of the included plugins are useful for you.