Kraftwerk lose sampling copyright case.

[Numanoid]

How did Afrika Bambaataa go about judicially when sampling from TEE on Planet Rock?

[Roman Empire]

First, I do not understand why Kraftwerk would bother for something which doesn´t really have such great signature value.
On the other hand, I think Mr Pelham should´ve just made the pattern by himself. It ain´t that difficult, but if you absolutely MUST rip it from somebody elses work, that somebody else should also be paid for it, IMO.

Best Regards

Roman Empire

[chk071]

First, I do not understand why Kraftwerk would bother for something which doesn´t really have such great signature value.

I don't think that's the point. The point is, what an example, and a precedence this makes. I can just use somebody else's work for my music. Not only the melody, or the sound, but the actual sample. Not cool. But as i said, unsurprisingly in germany, as it is lately.

[whyterabbyt]

How did Afrika Bambaataa go about judicially when sampling from TEE on Planet Rock?

Crossed his fingers and hoped there wasnt a lawsuit.

[chk071]

How did Afrika Bambaataa go about judicially when sampling from TEE on Planet Rock?

Google knows, probably.

[Roman Empire]

First, I do not understand why Kraftwerk would bother for something which doesn´t really have such great signature value.

I don't think that's the point. The point is, what an example, and a precedence this makes. I can just use somebody else's work for my music. Not only the melody, or the sound, but the actual sample. Not cool. But as i said, unsurprisingly in germany, as it is lately.

So you think Kraftwerk started this to open up the debate about the subject of whether if you can use a 2 sec electro drum pattern made by somebody else?
Or do you mean: "For me the point in this is that..."?



Best Regards

Roman Empire

[chk071]

You don't know what the point is for Kraftwerk to open up the case. For me, a big part of the point is also to create a precedence. As for any court ruling.

[Numanoid]

How did Afrika Bambaataa go about judicially when sampling from TEE on Planet Rock?

Google knows, probably.

According to Google, Baker and Bambaataa didn't sample but "reverse engineered", so that makes it different kettle of fish altogether

http://www.spin.com/2012/12/kraftwerk-l ... anet-rock/

[Roman Empire]

You don't know what the point is for Kraftwerk to open up the case. For me, a big part of the point is also to create a precedence. As for any court ruling.

Ok, just wanted to understand you right, as for me these things are interesting and part of the stuff that is relevant to discuss in this case, just like your personal interest in the story.

Best Regards

Roman Empire

[IncarnateX]

Two seconds sounds like a lot to me in sample time. I am a little baffled by the ruling. Was the Hip Hop that artistic? Hadn't even an idea that it could be.

[Numanoid]

Nur Mir sounds pretty decent without the KW sample too

Jazzy hip-hop with an understated voice, nice

[Numanoid]

Hütter is far too glad in lawsuits though

When Wolfgang Flür wrote his autobiography "Hütter and Schneider filed a lawsuit against Flür, causing halt of the publication and rewriting parts that included disputed accounts of his time with the band."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Fl%C3%BCr

[loachm]

...though the court's ruling doesn't exactly solve anything (not too mention it doesn't conclude the discourse), it's comprehensible. The snippet with the judge's explanation in that news bit is the interesting part. Since it is unlikely that Kraftwerk's original track would suffer (direct) financial losses due to the existence of that other track, the judges valued a freedom (i.e. artistic freedom) higher than a right (the author's copyright). It's not exactly deciding for just one side, but rather ruling in favour of one after weighing up things. It's not uncontroversial and I'm not sure, what I think about it, but following that logic it's not really a verdict that the judges have pulled out the part of their robes where the sun doesn't shine. However, it doesn't mean that now sampling is per se legal, nor that there is a right to sample (like one stupid article claimed yesterday)...

[Roman Empire]

Nur Mir sounds pretty decent without the KW sample too

Jazzy hip-hop with an understated voice, nice

Agreed, and that beat could´ve been any beat - it´s not a carrying column in any way for this song, which is also why I think it´s pretty lame why they didn´t make up something on their own which would just take a few mins.
I used to like German hiphop alot in the 90s (Sabrina incl.) since it seemed much more melodic, polished and different from all the agressive hiphop which is more about shouting over a sampled beat. Yes, it all kinda was born out of Gangstahs Paradise (sampling Stevie Wonder without which the song would have been NOTHING) but at least the songs had melodies and not just sampled drums and anger.
I don´t know if that´s still how German hiphop sounds, but if it does, then at least some hiphop outthere still - to me - sticks to a more musical traditional and maybe not so "cool" way of thinking, rather than going with the flow.

Best Regards

Roman Empire

[Numanoid]

Agreed, and that beat could´ve been any beat - it´s not a carrying column in any way for this song, which is also why I think it´s pretty lame why they didn´t make up something on their own which would just take a few mins.

They might not even have sampled Kraftwerk by intent just picking it up from another record

The metal on metal/tee samples are found all over the place, just listen to this Dr Dre tune for example