Cakewalk: "Big announcements coming June 1st, 2016"

[Resonant- Serpent]

Sonar is still the flagship software.

...but not the cash cow

That's very unusual isn't it?

I thought it was odd when I was talking to a developer from Sony years ago, but see it as the norm. The lower end of their audio programs made far more money than their flagship programs. When I ran a business that catered to all economic demographics, we made more profit per item on the higher end, but made more profit overall on the lower end simply because more of the masses could afford it. I think a majority of hobbyists are actually scared of the higher end software and the learning curve.

[Numanoid]

It makes sense in that Sonar builds brand recognition

Like McDonalds BigMac, they probably make a lot more on the soft drinks they sell, but it is BigMac that makes them recognized

[Resonant- Serpent]

This is true. If soft drinks were outlawed, fast food wouldn't exist.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

"We'll only be selling lifetime updates for SONAR Platinum during this period. It's a better value and will reduce confusion over which version to buy. We want customers to have the best experience."

Point is: when that period is over they'll probably use the concept which counted before the period. So very little has changed. They promised SMac, big deal. It's just about a temporary injection of cash flow. My 2c.

We've heard about three topics consistently for the past few years.

1) When is SONAR coming to the Mac

2) I don't like this idea of membership, I don't want to pay for fixes, etc.

3) I want you to focus on improving core features and less on shiny new things I don't need

In one day, we addressed all three and shared our plans for Mac, gave people the opportunity to bypass membership, and showed them our product roadmap for the next several months.

I honestly don't know what else you expect from a company. We are actively listening and sharing our thoughts. Sometimes at KVR, I feel like this is a lose-lose proposition, no matter what we do.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

Opcode Studio Vision - Gibson

We've been with Gibson for over 2.5 years now. The comparison is not even close. They have been very supportive of Cakewalk and the level of activity from us since the acquisition has been very high. We put out updates every month. But I am sure 5 years from now, you'll still be talking about Opcode.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

The deal expires August 31st. So what will the purchase options be after that date?

Back to normal pricing, most likely.

If that is where this ends up then this is just a cash grab. That and the creation of two classes of Sonar Platinum users. As a potential Mac customer I don't see this as a good thing.

There aren't two classes of SONAR Platinum. With Membership you get rolling updates for 12 months, with Lifetime updates, you get every future rolling update we put out. While customers in general have really loved the rolling updates, some customers didn't like the time restriction so we gave them a chance to just remove it.

The updates themselves are the same for Membership and Lifetime.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

LOL. Do people still use Sonar in 2016?

All I want is for Cakewalk to answer my f'n email to support.

Hello Customer.

Yes, hello.

Today we have great news.

What's that?

We are going to answer your email.

WOW. THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH.

Send me a PM with your user account and/or email and I will look into it.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

Sonar is still the flagship software.

...but not the cash cow

That's very unusual isn't it?

I thought it was odd when I was talking to a developer from Sony years ago, but see it as the norm. The lower end of their audio programs made far more money than their flagship programs. When I ran a business that catered to all economic demographics, we made more profit per item on the higher end, but made more profit overall on the lower end simply because more of the masses could afford it. I think a majority of hobbyists are actually scared of the higher end software and the learning curve.

Like in many other industries (like cars for example), flaghship products set the bar and lead in innovation, only to see those innovations eventually get adopted into other products lines. They are not always the top revenue earner. We definitely see SONAR Platinum as the most powerful product in our lineup. What's good about our delivery model though is we can incrementally improve it over time rather than doing these huge annual upgrades. It's going to make the program even better. And we can easily roll features into other products if necessary without a big fuss. In fact, these days the core engine of SONAR is almost identical to Professional and Artist. So from a delivery side, we streamlined a lot to be more efficient and responsive.

That being said, the SONAR line is still a big part of our business and Platinum is very important.

[aMUSEd]

"We'll only be selling lifetime updates for SONAR Platinum during this period. It's a better value and will reduce confusion over which version to buy. We want customers to have the best experience."

Point is: when that period is over they'll probably use the concept which counted before the period. So very little has changed. They promised SMac, big deal. It's just about a temporary injection of cash flow. My 2c.

We've heard about three topics consistently for the past few years.

1) When is SONAR coming to the Mac

2) I don't like this idea of membership, I don't want to pay for fixes, etc.

3) I want you to focus on improving core features and less on shiny new things I don't need

In one day, we addressed all three and shared our plans for Mac, gave people the opportunity to bypass membership, and showed them our product roadmap for the next several months.

I honestly don't know what else you expect from a company. We are actively listening and sharing our thoughts. Sometimes at KVR, I feel like this is a lose-lose proposition, no matter what we do.

Don't worry, some of us are excited about this. I had to let go of Sonar moving to Mac, now I can potentially use it again. And lifetime updates, great idea.

[UncleAge]

The deal expires August 31st. So what will the purchase options be after that date?

Back to normal pricing, most likely.

If that is where this ends up then this is just a cash grab. That and the creation of two classes of Sonar Platinum users. As a potential Mac customer I don't see this as a good thing.

There aren't two classes of SONAR Platinum. With Membership you get rolling updates for 12 months, with Lifetime updates, you get every future rolling update we put out. While customers in general have really loved the rolling updates, some customers didn't like the time restriction so we gave them a chance to just remove it.

The updates themselves are the same for Membership and Lifetime.

No need to misquote me to try and make a point. What I was trying to point out was that after 8/31 new users will not have a chance to get lifetime updates as that offer will no longer exist. From the info provided so far at the website, and if we assume things go back to normal, then all new users after 8/31 will only have to option of purchasing the Platinum (or whatever its called after that) edition without lifetime updates. Thus creating two classes of users.

So let me ask the question in a more direct manner. Will Mac users have the option to upgrade to a lifetime of free upgrades if and when a Sonar on the OSX platform materializes in a commercial product?

[aMUSEd]

So let me ask the question in a more direct manner. Will Mac users have the option to upgrade to a lifetime of free upgrades if and when a Sonar on the OSX platform materializes in a commercial product?

They have already said that if you buy Platinum lifetime that would also include a license for the Mac version when it comes. However it would be nice if there was a rerun of the offer for Mac users once the app is stable, otherwise we are kindof being expected to pay for the upgrade on faith. I might still do that tbh but it is a big ask.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

The deal expires August 31st. So what will the purchase options be after that date?

Back to normal pricing, most likely.

If that is where this ends up then this is just a cash grab. That and the creation of two classes of Sonar Platinum users. As a potential Mac customer I don't see this as a good thing.

There aren't two classes of SONAR Platinum. With Membership you get rolling updates for 12 months, with Lifetime updates, you get every future rolling update we put out. While customers in general have really loved the rolling updates, some customers didn't like the time restriction so we gave them a chance to just remove it.

The updates themselves are the same for Membership and Lifetime.

No need to misquote me to try and make a point. What I was trying to point out was that after 8/31 new users will not have a chance to get lifetime updates as that offer will no longer exist. From the info provided so far at the website, and if we assume things go back to normal, then all new users after 8/31 will only have to option of purchasing the Platinum (or whatever its called after that) edition without lifetime updates. Thus creating two classes of users.

So let me ask the question in a more direct manner. Will Mac users have the option to upgrade to a lifetime of free upgrades if and when a Sonar on the OSX platform materializes in a commercial product?

Actually, wasn't trying to misquote you at all. There been a question that has popped up quite a bit and is in the FAQ so I thought that's what you were asking about. It was in regard to if there was a difference between membership and lifetimes. To answer that one, there is no real difference between SONAR Platinum membership or lifetime except in terms of how we develop it and put out updates. The rolling updates will be identical for each group. The only big difference is that membership has a flag that tells it to stop delivering rolling updates after a year,whereas lifetime has no such flag. I guess if you want to consider that two classes (good and better) then ok. But we are giving customers the chance to buy lifetimes for the next three months. Let's see how it goes.

[AROSSA [Cakewalk]]

So let me ask the question in a more direct manner. Will Mac users have the option to upgrade to a lifetime of free upgrades if and when a Sonar on the OSX platform materializes in a commercial product?

They have already said that if you buy Platinum lifetime that would also include a license for the Mac version when it comes. However it would be nice if there was a rerun of the offer for Mac users once the app is stable, otherwise we are kindof being expected to pay for the upgrade on faith. I might still do that tbh but it is a big ask.

What he said. Re:offer, I would wait for the Alpha if you are looking to get the Mac version. It's still early in the process. The Alpha will be free to try out. Sign up on our site to get more news at we get closer.

[aMUSEd]

Yeah but the Alpha won't be out till after the offer expires. So will Mac users get another shot at it?

[UncleAge]

The deal expires August 31st. So what will the purchase options be after that date?

Back to normal pricing, most likely.

If that is where this ends up then this is just a cash grab. That and the creation of two classes of Sonar Platinum users. As a potential Mac customer I don't see this as a good thing.

There aren't two classes of SONAR Platinum. With Membership you get rolling updates for 12 months, with Lifetime updates, you get every future rolling update we put out. While customers in general have really loved the rolling updates, some customers didn't like the time restriction so we gave them a chance to just remove it.

The updates themselves are the same for Membership and Lifetime.

No need to misquote me to try and make a point. What I was trying to point out was that after 8/31 new users will not have a chance to get lifetime updates as that offer will no longer exist. From the info provided so far at the website, and if we assume things go back to normal, then all new users after 8/31 will only have to option of purchasing the Platinum (or whatever its called after that) edition without lifetime updates. Thus creating two classes of users.

So let me ask the question in a more direct manner. Will Mac users have the option to upgrade to a lifetime of free upgrades if and when a Sonar on the OSX platform materializes in a commercial product?

Actually, wasn't trying to misquote you at all. There been a question that has popped up quite a bit and is in the FAQ so I thought that's what you were asking about. It was in regard to if there was a difference between membership and lifetimes. To answer that one, there is no real difference between SONAR Platinum membership or lifetime except in terms of how we develop it and put out updates. The rolling updates will be identical for each group. The only big difference is that membership has a flag that tells it to stop delivering rolling updates after a year,whereas lifetime has no such flag. I guess if you want to consider that two classes (good and better) then ok. But we are giving customers the chance to buy lifetimes for the next three months. Let's see how it goes.

Ok, we'll do this your way. You say there is no difference between lifetime and membership versions correct? Except there is, see lifetime folk don't have to shell out any more cash. See the difference? So, if I am not not a Sonar and I am not, (even though I do have a cakewalk account and product) and I plan to purchase later on after there is a commercial product on my platform of choice then I am in another class of platinum user. I am in the class that has to continually shell out money to stay up-to-date. Before you answer, if you answer, please keep in mind I am on a Mac and do not as of this time have a license for Sonar.

If there is no way to address that question at this time I understand.