What makes a DAW's midi editor good?

[bungle]

It needs to always click when you click or drag when you drag with the mouse, non of this Maschine nonsense where it may actually scroll instead of dragging, or Reapers finicky note entry (underatted, not after using it non stop for years and then trying something better)
Advanced features are of little importance in comparison to fast and furious note entry/editing, S1 is very good in this regard, its missing a few things i would like, but generally has a good feel to it.

[memyselfandus]

Not sure what you mean by finicky note entry?


For context

Reaper:

- Tool-less operation, no silly 1990s tools
- - eg with mouse modifiers you can select all notes in a bar and then timestretch them with two clicks.

- Being able to switch views in the same MIDI editor from piano roll to notation or list.

- Having drum diamonds on some tracks visible at the same time as having note rectangles visible on others.

- Really flexible visibility/editability using the Track List.

- editing of 14 bit MIDI CCs in a single lane

- Named notes in piano roll.

- Ability to use VST and JS MIDI FX on the input or output side of a track.
-- or as FX on items.

- MIDI buses, 16 per track (* 16 channels) (for MIDI sends, complex routing etc)

- ReaScript having full read/write access to all MIDI (and everything else) in one or multiple projects.

- JS scripting having full read/modify/write access to live MIDI (with interaction with ReaScript).

Reapers piano roll is seriously underrated. Just the fact that you can user define grid length to any number and also stretch any number of notes over any number of beats is insane. Live does this but you have to delete a extra note after stretching. Which is odd.

[bungle]

Reapers mouse capturing is finicky, depending on what settings you have (Single click or double click) it is finnicky in Windows, it is a PITA in OSX, but then Reaper as a whole is second rate in OSX.

[incubus]

Agreed. They are not the only one.

For as "good" as all some of "those" midi editors are (allegedly) it's the operator more than anything.

Bitwig and a couple of others (one starts with an L, ) have tried to be new in the game, but really are not doing anything that you can't do with "brand x"

That's disappointing. After 600 years of this crap, I'd have expected much more from all companies.

I don't want a host to do "everything" for me. But working as advertised would be nice for a change. That's why reason is my "a number one" ... It's not the best, but what it does......it does at least as well (and usually better) than others.

[fandango]

If we're talking MIDI editing in it's original context, I'd say Reaper is "getting there", but stuff like this is still annoying.



Most people won't see anything wrong (or badly implemented) here, so therefore not a problem for anyone but the utterly pedantic.

[Robert Randolph]

If we're talking MIDI editing in it's original context, I'd say Reaper is "getting there", but stuff like this is still annoying.



Most people won't see anything wrong (or badly implemented) here, so therefore not a problem for anyone but the utterly pedantic.

Could you explain the issue please?

[Groundhog #31684]

Reapers mouse capturing is finicky, depending on what settings you have (Single click or double click)....

That's not my experience on several different computers - if it was I wouldn't use it. I also have not heard that issue come up in many years of reading the good forums of t'interwebz. I'm not discounting your emotional experience but this is a thread about quantifiable differences and not about how competent the mouse sanitizers are at your local library/psychiatric ward.

[Robert Randolph]

Reapers mouse capturing is finicky, depending on what settings you have (Single click or double click)....

That's not my experience on several different computers - if it was I wouldn't use it. I also have not heard that issue come up in many years of reading the good forums of t'interwebz. I'm not discounting your emotional experience but this is a thread about quantifiable differences and not about how competent the mouse sanitizers are at your local library/psychiatric ward.

FWIW, I have experienced the finicky mouse capture as well. I'm in OS X.

Double clicks are sometimes hard to make happen, and click and drags often release early (despite not having this issue in any other software).

Anyway, this is clearly some sort of bug not an intentional design decision, so I don't think it's particularly topical eh?

[bungle]

Reapers mouse capturing is finicky, depending on what settings you have (Single click or double click)....

That's not my experience on several different computers - if it was I wouldn't use it. I also have not heard that issue come up in many years of reading the good forums of t'interwebz. I'm not discounting your emotional experience but this is a thread about quantifiable differences and not about how competent the mouse sanitizers are at your local library/psychiatric ward.

So first you discount the issue because YOU have never come across it, then you discount the issue because YOU have never read about it in all YOUR years reading forums, then you negate me personally as some kind of....well to be fair i have literally no idea what so ever what that quip about psychiatric wards or libraries is about ?
But hey, you have made yourself look so idiotic i don't even need to do it for you, thanks for being that very good little Reaper fanboy robot that Justin has spent years developing.

[stillshaded]

I would say that the quality of a midi editor is defined by the speed and accuracy you are able to enter musical data AFTER you've learned to make use of all the keyboard and mouse modifiers that are present.

A lot of people like Ableton because it accomplishes a fair amount with only a few tools. I do like it pretty well, but I think if you are willing to go a bit deeper, there are better options.

I like FL studio the most. Once you learn all the keyboard and mouse shortcuts, there are a staggering amount of functions you access extremely quickly. This lets you keep your creative thread moving without hangups.

Look at the manual, there is some really great stuff. right click + ctrl = zoom tool, right click + alt= midi scrub (ridiculously handy), you can stretch groups of notes by grabbing a handle to the left of them. right click delete.. Many more.

Also, just the way it feels is good. What people might refer to as "hit detection" in a video game. I like studio one's piano roll pretty well, but it seems to respond to mouse movements and clicks in a clunkier fashion. I know that sounds strange, but I think there is some truth to it.

Finally, the built in arpeggiator and chopper (among other) tools are really unique. Also very fast and powerful. Makes it easy to do things that are obtuse in other sequencers.

[fandango]

Could you explain the issue please?

Okay, let's have a look at Reaper's "Event List" (I couldn't capture it all in one screenshot) :-

http://i.imgur.com/IL4hxQN.gif

In Cubase, Sonar, etc. it would probably look like this :-

http://i.imgur.com/whrvWgh.gif

In short: This is 'continuous' data, you only need to state it once and it is in effect until data of a different value is passed.

The example I've given is an extreme example, but by eliminating the duplicates when you draw data (as Cubase, FL etc. do), it results in much cleaner data (possibly more efficient, Kontakt etc. are probably smart enough to ignore all the duplicate CCs Reaper sends)

There's a Feature Request posted by DarkStar from 2008 with extra stuff in it, and it get resurrected from time to time by kind souls, but continuously ignored by the devs.

And I know why this hasn't been fixed, or why density controls haven't been added, or why the drawing of data isn't like it is in Cubase, SONAR, etc. and it's simply because MIDI is not a core concern for the Reaper community, and that's fair enough. It's still a shame though, as Notation and stuff is stuck on with duct tape in a way that makes Reaper resemble more-and-more the audio version of Microsoft Word.

If I didn't like Reaper, I wouldn't use it (licence has run out for me and I've declined to upgrade while v4.x keeps working for my needs). However, it will only ever be the "mix and master' stage of my music making after Cubase handles the composition side of things.

Which is a shame. I would love to bin that dongle.

[Robert Randolph]

Could you explain the issue please?

Okay, let's have a look at Reaper's "Event List" (I couldn't capture it all in one screenshot) :-

http://i.imgur.com/IL4hxQN.gif

In Cubase, Sonar, etc. it would probably look like this :-

http://i.imgur.com/whrvWgh.gif

In short: This is 'continuous' data, you only need to state it once and it is in effect until data of a different value is passed.

The example I've given is an extreme example, but by eliminating the duplicates when you draw data (as Cubase, FL etc. do), it results in much cleaner data (possibly more efficient, Kontakt etc. are probably smart enough to ignore all the duplicate CCs Reaper sends)

There's a Feature Request posted by DarkStar from 2008 with extra stuff in it, and it get resurrected from time to time by kind souls, but continuously ignored by the devs.

And I know why this hasn't been fixed, or why density controls haven't been added, or why the drawing of data isn't like it is in Cubase, SONAR, etc. and it's simply because MIDI is not a core concern for the Reaper community, and that's fair enough. It's still a shame though, as Notation and stuff is stuck on with duct tape in a way that makes Reaper resemble more-and-more the audio version of Microsoft Word.

If I didn't like Reaper, I wouldn't use it (licence has run out for me and I've declined to upgrade while v4.x keeps working for my needs). However, it will only ever be the "mix and master' stage of my music making after Cubase handles the composition side of things.

Which is a shame. I would love to bin that dongle.

I see, thank you for that information.

I can see how that would be annoying.

[Groundhog #31684]

triple post

[Groundhog #31684]

triple post

[Groundhog #31684]

Reapers mouse capturing is finicky, depending on what settings you have (Single click or double click)....

That's not my experience on several different computers - if it was I wouldn't use it. I also have not heard that issue come up in many years of reading the good forums of t'interwebz. I'm not discounting your emotional experience but this is a thread about quantifiable differences and not about how competent the mouse sanitizers are at your local library/psychiatric ward.

So first you discount the issue because YOU have never come across it, then you discount the issue because YOU have never read about it in all YOUR years reading forums, then you negate me personally as some kind of....

No, it's an issue Google can't find either.