Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

[EvilDragon]

I recently purchased Pianoteq Stage, and the included D4 and K2 grand pianos sound pretty good to my ears, but to me they are lacking "balls" for lack of a better term - that nice, rich string vibration you feel all around you when you play an acoustic piano with force, especially in low notes. Which Pianoteq model would you recommend for a really ballsy, rich, full vibration piano?

Model B.

And yes, Standard gives you a whole other world of options. There's microphone modeling, and that's one BIG factor that can impact the sound (since before v5, virtual microphones that Pianoteq used were all "perfect omnis", which means no coloration whatsoever - and we all know that each and every mic colors the signal to some extent!). So you can mix and match various mics and their polar patterns.

But what's even more important - you can route each of those mics to their own outputs. If you have a surround sound setup, you should feel a lot more of EVERYTHING, as the whole sound is going to be enveloping you...

[ImNotDedYet]

But you don't have to be a skilled player to hear a difference. If Truepianos sounds better, it doesn't matter what kind of response Pianoteq has. If you're not after just the "feel".

To you it doesn't matter. For some players, it matters a lot. The difference in feel is real and measurable, it's up to the individual to decide if that difference is important to them.

Ffs. We're talking sound. Not feel.
You don't need a "skilled feel" to hear a difference in VSTs.

You can have the best sounding piano sample or modeled library, but if the feel isn't there, you may not get the performance to be tops.

Which is exactly why people earlier in the thread recommended recording the MIDI with Pianoteq and using a sample library.

So yes, in some respects, and probably depending on the player, response or feel does have an impact.

[vic_france]

Which is exactly why people earlier in the thread recommended recording the MIDI with Pianoteq and using a sample library.

Why would the result be any better than recording the MIDI, using the sampled piano in the first place?.. It doesn't matter how fine the MIDI data is, if the receiving instrument doesn't respond to it nicely .

[Burillo]

Which is exactly why people earlier in the thread recommended recording the MIDI with Pianoteq and using a sample library.

Why would the result be any better than recording the MIDI, using the sampled piano in the first place?.. It doesn't matter how fine the MIDI data is, if the receiving instrument doesn't respond to it nicely .

i don't think it's sound advice, because a pianist, when playing, reacts to what he's hearing. so he'll play each piano differently. it may sound weird and unnatural if you record with one piano and then put in another.

[skipscada]

I recently purchased Pianoteq Stage, and the included D4 and K2 grand pianos sound pretty good to my ears, but to me they are lacking "balls" for lack of a better term - that nice, rich string vibration you feel all around you when you play an acoustic piano with force, especially in low notes.

With all respect, you're asking rather a lot here. The tactile response depends on the quality of the keyboard and feeling the vibrations depends on the monitoring system. What I'm trying to say is that although the aim of any piano emulation is to sound as a real piano would in a recording, you can't compare the actual experience of playing one thing with the other.

[ImNotDedYet]

Which is exactly why people earlier in the thread recommended recording the MIDI with Pianoteq and using a sample library.

Why would the result be any better than recording the MIDI, using the sampled piano in the first place?.. It doesn't matter how fine the MIDI data is, if the receiving instrument doesn't respond to it nicely .

Because the feel is different. IME, Pianoteq is the closest you get to the feeling and hence the reaction while playing that you get to a real piano. Even though I may prefer the overall sound of some sample libraries I have, the feel isn't there.

It's kind of similar to playing my Rhodes or Wurlie through an amp sim. Some may sound better in some instances than S-Gear, but I always play through S-Gear to record because the feel is the best.

[vic_france]

Why would the result be any better than recording the MIDI, using the sampled piano in the first place?.. It doesn't matter how fine the MIDI data is, if the receiving instrument doesn't respond to it nicely .

Because the feel is different. IME, Pianoteq is the closest you get to the feeling and hence the reaction while playing that you get to a real piano. Even though I may prefer the overall sound of some sample libraries I have, the feel isn't there.

But, as I said, and Burillo has said the same thing.. ok so you'll enjoy more doing the recording while playing Pianoteq, but the result when you play back via a different instrument will not be the same...
Take a deliberately graphic (hypothetical) example..
You have a sampled piano that has only four velocity layers, let's say changing layers at velocities of 32, 64 and 96, respectively. (let's further give the sampled piano credit for at least playing each layer at 31 progressive velocities before passing to the next layer). Play two sequential notes with incoming velocities of 31 and 32 respectively.. you'll hear the change of layer (and the result will depend on the tonal correlation between the recorded samples of those two layers.. if it isn't very good (e.g. the 2nd layer sounds too harsh), no amount of fine MIDI manipulation will make that sound any better.. the instrument will only know it has received a velocity of either 31 or 32, and play accordingly.

[BMoore]

But you don't have to be a skilled player to hear a difference. If Truepianos sounds better, it doesn't matter what kind of response Pianoteq has. If you're not after just the "feel".

To you it doesn't matter. For some players, it matters a lot. The difference in feel is real and measurable, it's up to the individual to decide if that difference is important to them.

Ffs. We're talking sound. Not feel.
You don't need a "skilled feel" to hear a difference in VSTs.

You can have the best sounding piano sample or modeled library, but if the feel isn't there, you may not get the performance to be tops.

Which is exactly why people earlier in the thread recommended recording the MIDI with Pianoteq and using a sample library.

So yes, in some respects, and probably depending on the player, response or feel does have an impact.

No one is saying otherwise.

[logburner]

Here is my observation for piano library user preference.

1. Majority of people think that physical modelling pianos such as Pianoteq have superior response to sample libraries.

2. Some people find Pianoteq the best sounding virtual piano, and others don't.

3. Those that prefer sample libraries, they go for such libraries for the sound, but would enjoy them more if the response was better.

4. To improve the responsiveness of a sample piano library, it needs greater number of velocity layers and advanced scripting on the software side and an audio interface with low enough latency for playback on the hardware side, yet there are certain acoustic phenomena inside a piano that are nearly impossible to replicate with sample based library for mechanical reasons.

[pixel85]

5. Some people simply use their tools knowing that any emulation (pm or samples) is just an emulation and they compose instead of spending days and nights overthinking and testing hundreds of different libraries and vst's

At the end if someone is ridiculous maniac, then he can ask pianist to play and record piano in studio/stage/bathroom

[oscarolarte]

Pianoteq 5 was a quantum leap vs Pianoteq 4 in sound quality. I expect we will be almost there with PIANOTEQ 6. I wonder when will be released.

I like these kind of test. REMEMBER, that pianoforte was also STATE OF THE ART technology of the sXVII

[oscarolarte]

I believe pianoteq is much better than VPIANO...is there any comparative.

[fmr]

4. To improve the responsiveness of a sample piano library, it needs greater number of velocity layers and advanced scripting on the software side and an audio interface with low enough latency for playback on the hardware side, yet there are certain acoustic phenomena inside a piano that are nearly impossible to replicate with sample based library for mechanical reasons.

OTOH, to replicate all the acoustic phenomena that happen inside a real piano, and its interactions with the room, one would need a model so extensive, comprehensive and intricate, that it will be humanly impossible to aprehend, much less will there be any CPU capable of handling all of it.

That's why what we have will ever be choices, none of them perfect. The only perfect thing is the real thing.

[logburner]

5. Some people simply use their tools knowing that any emulation (pm or samples) is just an emulation and they compose instead of spending days and nights overthinking and testing hundreds of different libraries and vst's

At the end if someone is ridiculous maniac, then he can ask pianist to play and record piano in studio/stage/bathroom

Yeah exactly. Although perhaps acoustically less than ideal, a piano recording session in a bathroom could be very convenient in some ways!

And I'd like to add another.

6. Everyone is looking forward to new/updated virtual pianos knowing that there's never gonna be a perfect one and we could be having the exact same conversation for the next 10 years!

[oscarolarte]

Bluether+D4 + Solid EQ (native instruments) and EastWest Spaces Reverb MASTERED WITH ISOTOPE OZONE

Tell me what do you think.