What makes a DAW's midi editor good?

[Groundhog #31684]

triple post

[juliansader]

I really like the Cubase drum editor, and they just enhanced it. MIDI edit in Cubase is generally really pleasant.

...

Almost all of these "New features" of Cubase 8.5 that the video showcases have long been standard in REAPER. One exception is "Reverse Drum Sound List", but that feature does not seem very useful to me, so I don't mind.

[juliansader]

In short: This is 'continuous' data, you only need to state it once and it is in effect until data of a different value is passed.

The example I've given is an extreme example, but by eliminating the duplicates when you draw data (as Cubase, FL etc. do), it results in much cleaner data (possibly more efficient, Kontakt etc. are probably smart enough to ignore all the duplicate CCs Reaper sends)

For my own workflow, I would not like my DAW to automatically remove redundant CCs. I may intend to manipulate these CCs into other shapes, or I may need the CCs to be sent continuously to some hardware.

When I eventually decide to remove the redundant CCs, REAPER can do so with a single click:

And I know why this hasn't been fixed, or why density controls haven't been added, or why the drawing of data isn't like it is in Cubase, SONAR, etc. and it's simply because MIDI is not a core concern for the Reaper community, and that's fair enough.

REAPER does have density controls: As a default, with snap-to-grid switched on, density follows the MIDI editor's grid setting (which can be changed by clicking the dropdown menu in the MIDI editor). If snap-to-grid is switched off (by clicking on the toolbar button or by holding down a modifier key while drawing), CCs will be drawn at any custom density that the user can set in Preferences -> MIDI editor -> Event density when drawing in CC lanes.

[incubus]

triple post

Where do I get this "triple post" and is it a better midi editor than cubase?

Does it require a dongle?

Is it free?

Is it compatible with my old 32 bit/synthedit plugs?

[.jon]

Reaper:

- Tool-less operation, no silly 1990s tools
- - eg with mouse modifiers you can select all notes in a bar and then timestretch them with two clicks.

- Being able to switch views in the same MIDI editor from piano roll to notation or list.

- Having drum diamonds on some tracks visible at the same time as having note rectangles visible on others.

- Really flexible visibility/editability using the Track List.

- editing of 14 bit MIDI CCs in a single lane

- Named notes in piano roll.

- Ability to use VST and JS MIDI FX on the input or output side of a track.
-- or as FX on items.

- MIDI buses, 16 per track (* 16 channels) (for MIDI sends, complex routing etc)

- ReaScript having full read/write access to all MIDI (and everything else) in one or multiple projects.

- JS scripting having full read/modify/write access to live MIDI (with interaction with ReaScript).

Reapers piano roll is seriously underrated. Just the fact that you can user define grid length to any number and also stretch any number of notes over any number of beats is insane. Live does this but you have to delete a extra note after stretching. Which is odd.

It has many nice features and configuration options, unfortunately also tons of bugs and usability issues. It's very awkward out of the box, spending weeks setting up the preferences, shortcuts and mouse modifiers and installing scripts turn it into something usable, but you'll still end up with something that is just lacking.

[SJ_Digriz]

Might as well ask what makes a good pair of shoes or a good hat.

[Robert Randolph]

Might as well ask what makes a good pair of shoes or a good hat.

Sure, if I want to know people's preferences for shoes or hats!

Since I'm looking to get people's opinions on workflow, experience and overall opinion of midi editors, I think I asked the right question.

So what do you look for in DAW's midi editor?

[SJ_Digriz]

My point is that midi editing is a huge topic. External or internal gear? Do you need merge? Sysex? List editing? Dual channel split? Expression maps? Cc redirect? Message filtering? Pass thru filtering? Etc etc efc... work flow will be based on what you are trying to do. Not the editor

[zenophilix]

I enjoy the simplicity of Live in general, but lately I've found myself really wanting to pick up a copy of FL. Live's piano roll is utterly underdeveloped, and is obviously aimed at recording MIDI from a keyboard, then doing a bit of quantizing and adjustment, then calling it done. FL is much more useful for general MIDI, especially when it comes to drawing out melodies on-screen. It would also help if I could adjust the velocity of overlapping notes more easily, the sliders at the bottom are useless in that respect...

[Zentropy]

I don't get why Ableton is content with such an underdeveloped PR. I used Ableton as my first DAW and didn't investigate any others for ~2 years. I finally downloaded the FL Studio demo because a friend used it and my jaw dropped when I saw how much the PR offered and how much easier it was to use. I dislike the rest of FL Studio but I bought it anyway and use it in VST mode just for MIDI...there was no going back to Ableton's way for me after I tried FL. Same thing when I tried Cubase for the first time. All this awesome functionality and useability that Ableton just forgoes in favor of the most anemic junk.

I'm sure a lot of people like it for the barebones feel (just like Reaper) which is fully legit, but Ableton could add quite a bit to its PR functionality without changing the way it works now at all.

[Robert Randolph]

My point is that midi editing is a huge topic. External or internal gear? Do you need merge? Sysex? List editing? Dual channel split? Expression maps? Cc redirect? Message filtering? Pass thru filtering? Etc etc efc... work flow will be based on what you are trying to do. Not the editor

Great, tell me what you do and what makes a midi editor good for your workflow.

It seems like you think that I'm trying to find software with a good midi editor for myself, but I'm not. I'm just trying to find out what other people think and why.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Robert Randolph]

why worry about it then if you are happy with what you have? It would make more sense if you were looking to switch daw and wanted to know which had a midi workflow that might suit you.

I'm not worrying. I don't even have a basis for 'being happy with what I have', since I don't even use midi 95% of the day.

I'm trying to learn about what other people think. You never know what you don't know, and the only way to find out is to ask.

So here we are. I'm curious and looking to see what other people think.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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