Mixer, what should I buy?

[Sonicseven]

Been contemplating the purchase of a new mixer (I currently have Behringer 602a) for both PC recording and possible live use (I was recomended to someone who runs an experimental music club) and want something that has at least 4 stereo inputs. I have looked at these:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid ... _id/39735/

I like this one but not sure if I want to spend that much.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid ... _id/88600/

This looks like a great bargain but I have heard alot of people don,t like Behringer. Not sure why since the reviews seem positive.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid ... _id/59449/

This looks good but not having the best eq options.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid ... id/104928/

This also looks interesting but not sure if their reputation is true for mixers.

There were other manufacturers that I have been looking at but again price is important.
Anybody got any advice on mixers, I would appreciate the input (pun intended)

[progfusion74]

Since I have a 602a, I shall follow this thread intently

[Sonicseven]

Hey Prog, I am leaning towards the Mackie 1402 but if I hear good things about the Behringer I may jump at that, too good a deal.

[Big Karma]

I stand by the Kenwood Chef or if Im really pushed, a good all round moulinex food processor is always a handy gadget to have around the kitchen!!!

[kritikon]

Behringer get alot of stick....mostly because people unfairly compare them with mixers that are in a different league to them. They are cheap, so how can you possibly expect them to sound like a Mackie 8buss or a Neve?

Behringer mixers give great value at the price point. They generally have more features/more channels than comparably priced mixers. If you remember that a $500 mixer is not going to sound like a $1500 mixer then you can't go wrong with a Behringer.

So, we've established that they are probably the best value. Are they the best quality - not necessarily. You only need to pay just a little more (usually to get less channels and less features though) to take a step up in quality. That is purely a choice you make. To save money+gain channels, or to spend more and get less but better quality.

If you were concerned about getting pristine quality recordings into your PC then avoid Behringer. If live is mostly what it's going to be used for, then having more channels is far more important than pristine sound quality (you're going to go through probably average club systems anyway - so any extra quality is going to be lost).
You may want to consider things like the quality of the mic preamps - mixers like Mackie are far better in that department than Behringer, but again it boils down to how good a quality sound are your live listeners going to notice? And with anything Mackie you'll get almost 1/3 or 1/2 less channels!

I've used Behringers and many other mixers. Last time I was shopping for a mixer, I spent several days rigorously checking things like channel bleed, hiss and noise, Eq sound.
What I found - Behringer - adjacent channel bleed was awful. Turn up your gains to max, boost high Eq, then plug your headphones into the adjacent channel. A frightening amount of noise comes through.
Eq - very wideband bass and mids - generally what I'd call "muddy". Otherwise they had tons more features than anything the same price. Generally at least 4 or 8 more channels, and usually more aux sends/returns etc.

If I was going live - yep, I'd go for a Behringer. Heaps more bang for buck, at a cheap entry level, and there is a good choice of format with their mixers. For one good Mackie, depending on the shop - you could probably buy 2 Behringers and at least double your channel count.

Next time I buy a mixer it will purely be for home use into my PC, and possibly for external mixing of PC audio. In that scenario I wouldn't touch a Behringer with a bargepole I'm afraid. Too noisy, unusable Eq, and the features are less important than a clean (or at least, characterful) signal path.
I'd rather spend twice the cash and have far less channels. I've used a few Soundcraft, Studiomaster, and Allen&Heath desks (which are not even approaching the real good quality ones) - I even had to use a Seck way back when hehehe . And when you push one of those desks, the sound quality is several steps noticeably better. As is the Eq. And the lack of noise. (except for the Seck of course!). I was actually surprised and impressed by the latest Folio Eqs. They've steadily increased the quality in their budget desks, whereas possibly Behringer haven't - they seem to concentrate more on packing in features.

So you have to make a choice - more features or better sound. Sound quality is really not always the most important consideration. Much though the snobs (myself included at times ) like to say so.

It's a bit like comparing a zoom stomp box aimed at guitar FX with a Lexicon reverb unit - it just is not a fair comparison. So between Behringer and equivalent priced mixers, Behringer will generally do very well in a head to head comparison.

[Big Karma]

I stand by the Kenwood Chef or if Im really pushed, a good all round moulinex food processor is always a handy gadget to have around the kitchen!!!

Im sorry this statement was highly childish and uncalled for, I am such a girl!

I can only apologise!

[Sonicseven]

Thanks Kritikon for a very informative reply.
Since I will be using this mixer mostly in my home studio the main concern I have is with low noise. I
guess the Mackie will win out here. I have some noise in the Behringer 602a that I have and although it is not severe I would prefer to eliminate that in my signal chain.
I will have to bite the bullet and spend the extra for the 1402. Still tempted to go with the DFX12. Any thoughts on this models performance.I will probably be getting a hardware reverb unit (TC Electronics M-One XL) so I doubt I would need the built in FX.
Also will be looking into the Spirit series from Soundcraft. looks bigger than the Mackie which could be a factor since I have little space available.

Big Karma wrote

Im sorry this statement was highly childish and uncalled for, I am such a girl!

I can only apologise!

I was tempted with a childish reply (only for humor sake) but did not want this thread to get sucked into the the bottomless pit of no return. I needed a serious answer.
Thanks for the apology, your honor has been restored

[Big Karma]

[DevonB]

Also will be looking into the Spirit series from Soundcraft. looks bigger than the Mackie which could be a factor since I have little space available.

While I can't answer for the whole line of Spirit mixers, I had a Spirit Folio F1, and am *VERY* glad it's gone. The preamps for the mics were VERY noisy, to the point that I had to be at around -30dB to eliminate the hiss. The Roland VM3100 I replaced it with I'm quite happy.

Devon

[Sonicseven]

DevonB wrote

While I can't answer for the whole line of Spirit mixers, I had a Spirit Folio F1, and am *VERY* glad it's gone. The preamps for the mics were VERY noisy, to the point that I had to be at around -30dB to eliminate the hiss. The Roland VM3100 I replaced it with I'm quite happy.

Devon

Thanks for the reply Devon, I guess that leaves 2 choices in my price range. Mackie 1402 or DFX12.I can afford the 1402 but it may push the purchase of the M-One back some.

Any other contenders I might consider.

[moldofunker]

i have a stupid question... what is the difference between phono in and line in in the mixer ? I had a pioneer DJM600 mixer but didn't fugured out tho..

[nuffink]

i have a stupid question... what is the difference between phono in and line in in the mixer ? I had a pioneer DJM600 mixer but didn't fugured out tho..

Records are eq'ed with the treble boosted and the bass cut (a lot). The phono input does the opposite - boosts the bass and cuts the treble. Line input is flat.

[Lunch Money]

If you're primarily recording to a PC, I wouldn't worry about the Mackie's lack of EQ options. Wouldn't you normally want to record as flat as possible and EQ within your host program anyhow?

Also not sure about the DFX for the Mackie. When I was researching mixers, NONE of the boards mentioned got high grades for the built-in effects. Some allegedly had good sound quality but very little in terms of setting parameters. Again, though, I don't know because I never tried it in person, and I don't recall clearly enough which mixers those comments were made about. Worth looking into, though.

FWIW, I eventually got realistic and realized that I have no ambitions (you do, so I'm not comparing!) beyond mucking about at home so I got a Behringer 802 instead.

Greg

[kritikon]

Sonicseven.... Mackie certainly have good reviews, loyal followers, and they're noted for good mic inputs. As far as I'm aware, most of their budget range utilise the same components etc, so I'd fairly safely say they were all of the same standard. I tried out the 1402, and I wasn't disappointed. They make a 12channel one at a lower price don't they? (although from what I remember, there were no proper channel faders as such, just rotary knobs) and that could be a big sticking point if you do external mixing - good faders are so much easier. But if mostly what you're doing is inputting into your PC through the desk, then maybe that's not so big an issue, and might save a few pennies.

I don't know the DFX one, but I'd be very wary about buying any mixer for its internal FX. Either stick with your intention of getting a decent h/w unit, or spend more on a mixer and stick with pluginFX - I doubt the quality of most plugins is any worse than any desk's FX, and many will be much better.

It's also worth you considering looking around on the second hand market if you're considering buying a new Mackie from new (depending on where in the world you are). You just might pick up an older 8buss mixer for close to the price of a new Mackie, or at least a 16channel inline mixer. Something like the older Allen&Heaths have a great sound and decent useable Eqs. They used to be good in their day and will still stand up to budget desks. Older Studiomasters even - I used to have a 24ch P7, which was very very quiet, very flexible, midi muting etc. The Eq was a bit bland admittedly, but it wasn't bad as such (and the basic model was a 16ch thing). They are several years out of date, but that type of desk are well worth considering if you can find them for sale. The bonus would be that they have plenty enough channels to acommodate a growing list of h/w, they enable you to do all of your mixing (or as much of it as you want to do) outside of the PC - and that can be a helluvalot quicker and more fun than within a PC - especially if you plan to use external FX. It would be quite a long time before you needed to upgrade a mixer such as one of those.

And there's the self-satisfaction factor. It is sad, and I admit it, but it is a real pleasure to be sat in front of a larger mixer - it invites you to mix, makes you feel smug, banks of pulsating lights and knobs etc etc etc.

You don't see those type of desks often nowadays, but keep an eye out - it could be money very well spent if you spot one. Any of the older 16ch 8buss mixers of upto 20 years ago will most likely stand well against new budget desks in terms of clean signal path (the Eq may not be quite as good, but they'll be close enough to not bother about) and as said - you don't often actually use desk Eq apart from lowcuts for serious mixing anyway.

Just a thought.

[Democritus]

An AMS Neve would be good.