met a couple tonight who do a bit of wedding/brithdays stuff who i have agreed to record a demo for
pretty straight forward as they already have writtent he songs etc but i have never recorded vocals properly.
they have a mic but i record in my office so there is no obvious soloution for vocalists. what do people do about pop sheilds/vocal effects/ audio spill into the mike etc.
any advice is appreciated. i might be able to beg/borrow some gear of a few poeple i know bu this basically has to be a free soloution.
there are some excellent vocals on kvr and some of you must be using workarounds/slightly crap gear as you cant all have £200 mics and vocal booths.
cheers,
steve.
cheers,
steve.
microphones and vocals and stuff
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- KVRAF
- 4074 posts since 28 Apr, 2004
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- something special
- 8627 posts since 16 Mar, 2002 from Birmingham, Alabama
vocal fx? vst's of course!they have a mic but i record in my office so there is no obvious soloution for vocalists. what do people do about pop sheilds/vocal effects/ audio spill into the mike etc.
audio spill avoided by monitoring during vocals, acoustic guitars etc using headphones.
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- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Mar, 2003 from Champaign, Illinois
Yep, I'm using crap gear... $99 mic, $130 preamp, bad acoustics, sketchy voice. 
But I get decent feedback on my vocals so I must be doing something right.
If you use a directional (cardiod or hypercardiod) mic, and monitor with headphones like bluedad suggested, you won't get much bleed.
If the singers have a single mic, it's likely to be a Shure SM58 dynamic mic.. that's a terrific live mic, and a wonderful studio mic for rock music.. mick jagger/bono/etc... but for most people, you'll want a condenser mic.
Beg/borrow/steal a large capsule (1") condenser if you don't have one. I use a Marshall 1006... but I've heard good things about the Studio Projects C1, the Red5 RV8/RV10, and the Marshall V67G. Large capsule condensor mic's have metal pop shields built in that work well... it's probably all you need, but you can also buy a nylon mesh shield from a music shop online if you want to look all pro.
Set up the mic pretty close to the singer (6-8") and you won't have much trouble with room noise.. if it's a very quiet song/sparse mix, you might need to gate the vocals... but usually the noise level is acceptable in a rock mix.
My usual fx for vocals are something like 6:1 compression, soft knee, threshold set to compress 6-8db on the strongest peaks and 1-3db most of the time. A high pass eq to roll off the bass under 100Hz or so... A little bit of reverb is nice when you've close mic'd the vocals, but don't go nutty...
A de-essor like spitfish helps to keep the sibilance under control when I remember to use it.
Good luck!
-Garret
But I get decent feedback on my vocals so I must be doing something right.If you use a directional (cardiod or hypercardiod) mic, and monitor with headphones like bluedad suggested, you won't get much bleed.
If the singers have a single mic, it's likely to be a Shure SM58 dynamic mic.. that's a terrific live mic, and a wonderful studio mic for rock music.. mick jagger/bono/etc... but for most people, you'll want a condenser mic.
Beg/borrow/steal a large capsule (1") condenser if you don't have one. I use a Marshall 1006... but I've heard good things about the Studio Projects C1, the Red5 RV8/RV10, and the Marshall V67G. Large capsule condensor mic's have metal pop shields built in that work well... it's probably all you need, but you can also buy a nylon mesh shield from a music shop online if you want to look all pro.
Set up the mic pretty close to the singer (6-8") and you won't have much trouble with room noise.. if it's a very quiet song/sparse mix, you might need to gate the vocals... but usually the noise level is acceptable in a rock mix.
My usual fx for vocals are something like 6:1 compression, soft knee, threshold set to compress 6-8db on the strongest peaks and 1-3db most of the time. A high pass eq to roll off the bass under 100Hz or so... A little bit of reverb is nice when you've close mic'd the vocals, but don't go nutty...
A de-essor like spitfish helps to keep the sibilance under control when I remember to use it.Good luck!
-Garret
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4074 posts since 28 Apr, 2004
thanks guys, it might be a mad experience but i'm the closest thing to "studio time" these guys have got so i might as well go for it.
they have two mics (for the cheesy duets obviously
) but i imagine they are the same, i do have a couple of mates who should be able to borrow me some mics from their work so i'll request what garret suggests and see if they come up trumps.
cheers for the fx info, i'm quite looking forward to giving it a go.
steve.
they have two mics (for the cheesy duets obviously
) but i imagine they are the same, i do have a couple of mates who should be able to borrow me some mics from their work so i'll request what garret suggests and see if they come up trumps.cheers for the fx info, i'm quite looking forward to giving it a go.
steve.
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- KVRAF
- 2086 posts since 11 Feb, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 2086 posts since 11 Feb, 2003
You should be able to edit most of the puhs out with a wave editor...like soundforge...the free one with sound blaster card.
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christiancoriolis christiancoriolis https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5038
- KVRer
- 26 posts since 17 Dec, 2002 from Aarhus, Denmark
About the headphones: They should be closed ones to avoid spill, even if you don't have large monitoring levels in them. I'm speaking from painful experience here. 
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- Boss Lovin' DR
- 14312 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
A few more things...
If you're getting a lot of plosives, get the bastards to take all the 'b's and 'p's out of their lyrics, or alternatively get them to sing a bit further away from the mic, garrets 6-8 inches sounds a bit close to me, but then again, I can be a loud bastard. If it still persists. try the old pair of tights over a coathanger as a make do popshield.
For compression, try blockfish, 'vintage vocal' preset so it's peaking at about 1/3 on the meter, seems to work nicely, no f**king around needed. Don't overcompress the main vocal too much, and use automation to bump it up slightly in loud bits if needed.
Do loads of takes. You can select the best bits then, and use the other parts for layering vocals in choruses etc. Classic chorus has a nice 'vocal overdub' preset which sounds good on backing vocals.
'Spot effects' are always nice, and add interest to a mix; eg using a delay on the last word of a section. You can do this by automation or by setting up a seperate track for them.
And, as in all things, don't overdo that f**king evil reverb
! If you need to create a 'spacey' sound, use delays instead, sounds much tighter in a mix.
If you're getting a lot of plosives, get the bastards to take all the 'b's and 'p's out of their lyrics, or alternatively get them to sing a bit further away from the mic, garrets 6-8 inches sounds a bit close to me, but then again, I can be a loud bastard. If it still persists. try the old pair of tights over a coathanger as a make do popshield.
For compression, try blockfish, 'vintage vocal' preset so it's peaking at about 1/3 on the meter, seems to work nicely, no f**king around needed. Don't overcompress the main vocal too much, and use automation to bump it up slightly in loud bits if needed.
Do loads of takes. You can select the best bits then, and use the other parts for layering vocals in choruses etc. Classic chorus has a nice 'vocal overdub' preset which sounds good on backing vocals.
'Spot effects' are always nice, and add interest to a mix; eg using a delay on the last word of a section. You can do this by automation or by setting up a seperate track for them.
And, as in all things, don't overdo that f**king evil reverb
! If you need to create a 'spacey' sound, use delays instead, sounds much tighter in a mix.-
- KVRAF
- 2086 posts since 11 Feb, 2003
That's what I did for quite some time.try the old pair of tights over a coathanger as a make do popshield.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4074 posts since 28 Apr, 2004
thanks for everybodies replies.
i've just been listenbing to their current demo and it sounds like its been recorded through a phone with some cheesy "home keyboard" backing. so i'm hoping i can do a much better job.
I've managed to borrow some pretty reasonable headphones (Sennheiser HD-212) and a condensor mic (ADK A51). they apprently have 2 shure mics (not sure wich model) so i think i should be set there.
i've plugged the mic and the headphones into long cables so you can sing in my airing cupboard
as the mic seemed to be picking up a lot of computer noise and stuff when it was in the same room.
I've tried it out a bit this afternnon but i can't sing at all (or even hold a tune), however, it sounds alright audio wise. thanks for the compression/eq tips and i'll try not to overdo it on the reverb.
now to see what they think of singing in a cupboard.
cheers,
steve.
i've just been listenbing to their current demo and it sounds like its been recorded through a phone with some cheesy "home keyboard" backing. so i'm hoping i can do a much better job.
I've managed to borrow some pretty reasonable headphones (Sennheiser HD-212) and a condensor mic (ADK A51). they apprently have 2 shure mics (not sure wich model) so i think i should be set there.
i've plugged the mic and the headphones into long cables so you can sing in my airing cupboard
as the mic seemed to be picking up a lot of computer noise and stuff when it was in the same room.I've tried it out a bit this afternnon but i can't sing at all (or even hold a tune), however, it sounds alright audio wise. thanks for the compression/eq tips and i'll try not to overdo it on the reverb.
now to see what they think of singing in a cupboard.
cheers,
steve.
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- KVRian
- 1106 posts since 8 Oct, 2003 from Belgium
That's a good point. If you have an acousticly untreated room, then you're sometimes better off with a dynamic mic instead of a condenser (= more sensitive to the sound of the room + picks up a lot of background noise). If you get a 'boxy' sound with the condenser, don't forget to give the dynamic mics a try!blaster78 wrote:i've plugged the mic and the headphones into long cables so you can sing in my airing cupboard as the mic seemed to be picking up a lot of computer noise and stuff when it was in the same room.
Peter.
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The_Hidden_Goose The_Hidden_Goose https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10878 - KVRian
- 945 posts since 8 Dec, 2003 from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)
I'm taking notes here...
All I need is a female vocalist with a unique voice - not asking for to much am I???
Vocal boothes aren't a necessity then? I have a friend who warns me not to even bother trying to record vocals without one (I've never recorded human voice, other than on a dictaphone/minidic live on train and wotnot...field recordings). As he'd done it before I kinda took his advice as gospel...more fool me?
All I need is a female vocalist with a unique voice - not asking for to much am I???
Vocal boothes aren't a necessity then? I have a friend who warns me not to even bother trying to record vocals without one (I've never recorded human voice, other than on a dictaphone/minidic live on train and wotnot...field recordings). As he'd done it before I kinda took his advice as gospel...more fool me?
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- KVRian
- 1106 posts since 8 Oct, 2003 from Belgium
I don't have a vocal booth at home! 
I record my girlfriend with a dynamic (don't laugh) Behringer mic which goes up to 16 kHz. I have an untreated room, so I make her sing relatively close to the mic (with a plop screen in between), later I roll off everything below 150 - 200 Hz to remove rumble and pronounced p and b's. I usualy also hang a blanket behind her so the sound isn't reflected back into the mic.
It's not ideal and I do spend some time cleaning up the recording (noise gate, compression, equalizer and fx) but it sounds ok for a non-pro recording.
Peter.
I record my girlfriend with a dynamic (don't laugh) Behringer mic which goes up to 16 kHz. I have an untreated room, so I make her sing relatively close to the mic (with a plop screen in between), later I roll off everything below 150 - 200 Hz to remove rumble and pronounced p and b's. I usualy also hang a blanket behind her so the sound isn't reflected back into the mic.
It's not ideal and I do spend some time cleaning up the recording (noise gate, compression, equalizer and fx) but it sounds ok for a non-pro recording.
Peter.
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- KVRAF
- 1740 posts since 6 Jan, 2004 from USA
i sing in a rather large room. use a shure beta 58A (dynamic), sing about 1 to 0.5 inches from the mic, have no other hardware except my mic and soundcard. all effects are applied afterwards.
lates
t-willy
lates
t-willy
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4074 posts since 28 Apr, 2004
again, thanks for the advice guys. i've been doing some more tests and it seems to be working out pretty good. i guess the best way is to experiment a bit when they come round band just try a few things out before i get to recording anything "proper"
if they are ok with it i will probably post some stuff here (different vocal takes) and ask people what they might do to them/how they might do it differently.
i've made a pop screen with some of my gf's tights (which she doesn't know yet) so i'm prepared at least if we need it.
i'm looking forward to learning a bit really, even with my trully awful voice i've been trying out some compression and one or two other bits an pieces, in fact with a bit of delay you can almost believe i can sing (or maybe not )
cheers,
steve.
if they are ok with it i will probably post some stuff here (different vocal takes) and ask people what they might do to them/how they might do it differently.
i've made a pop screen with some of my gf's tights (which she doesn't know yet) so i'm prepared at least if we need it.
i'm looking forward to learning a bit really, even with my trully awful voice i've been trying out some compression and one or two other bits an pieces, in fact with a bit of delay you can almost believe i can sing (or maybe not )
cheers,
steve.