KVR Audio

cowby · Post by **cowby** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:22 am

Hi,

I just watched this Video. And my current DAW is Studio one. Point is the guy in the video composed the track real fast. Starting from Drum pattern then pressed 2-3 buttons in the controller and he could then lay down the synth, bass, lead etc etc ... Is it what you guys call "clips". With my limited knowledge, I couldn't use the similar approach in Studio one. Is it the edge of Live ?

Cowby

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:41 am

cowby wrote:Hi,

I just watched this Video. And my current DAW is Studio one. Point is the guy in the video composed the track real fast. Starting from Drum pattern then pressed 2-3 buttons in the controller and he could then lay down the synth, bass, lead etc etc ... Is it what you guys call "clips". With my limited knowledge, I couldn't use the similar approach in Studio one. Is it the edge of Live ?

Cowby

I would say that the session view is the edge in Live. I have both and for some millions of reasons I just prefer Studio One 3 over Live. I will say that the workflow in Live is very cool up until a certain point for me. But I am much more fluid with Studio One 3. It seems as if everyone, and I mean everyone, uses Live though. I don't get it. I wish I could like Live as much as everyone else does. I actually like Bitwig Studio more than Live. Both are similar if not identical in a lot of ways, but Bitwig Studio has more luxury features than Live. Try both if you are unsure about the whole clip thing. You might get into it.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:25 am

Is it the edge of Live ?

Live is meant to play music live and that's what you get in Session view. Playing clips live gives different result than tweaking them with mouse in classic Arrangement view.

Personally I never made a significant piece of music in Session view, but I plan to try it out next. Of course it makes sense only if you own a controller and can play an instrument on your own.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:36 pm

Studio one, as Cubase or PT, comes more from a "recording" paradigm. Live is more geared towards a single artist working ITB, in that way recording in Live is more tedious that other DAW but composing is quite fast.

And with Push composing is super fast one of the best solutions for composing ITB for me.

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:17 pm

cowby wrote:Point is the guy in the video composed the track real fast

Except he didn't

What you are seeing is a well-rehearsed, pre-composed, performance. You can even see that much of the performance has already been laid down then just triggered.

If you are starting from a basic idea, by the time you've written the sections, chosen sounds etc, any daw will keep up

Someone who I really love to watch using ableton is Mr. Bill. This video will give you an example of someone who knows his tools well enough to realise any idea without getting in the way, which I think is a better goal than just "fast". Furthermore, he does all this while breaking the 'norm' of ableton being all about the session view

It's not as fast as your example, but it's real

He has a ton of free ableton tut's on his youtube channel

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:00 pm

Orbit-50 wrote:
cowby wrote:Hi,

I just watched this Video. And my current DAW is Studio one. Point is the guy in the video composed the track real fast. Starting from Drum pattern then pressed 2-3 buttons in the controller and he could then lay down the synth, bass, lead etc etc ... Is it what you guys call "clips". With my limited knowledge, I couldn't use the similar approach in Studio one. Is it the edge of Live ?

Cowby
I would say that the session view is the edge in Live. I have both and for some millions of reasons I just prefer Studio One 3 over Live. I will say that the workflow in Live is very cool up until a certain point for me. But I am much more fluid with Studio One 3. It seems as if everyone, and I mean everyone, uses Live though. I don't get it. I wish I could like Live as much as everyone else does. I actually like Bitwig Studio more than Live. Both are similar if not identical in a lot of ways, but Bitwig Studio has more luxury features than Live. Try both if you are unsure about the whole clip thing. You might get into it.

Reaper can play projects on different tabs at the same time with own independent timeline, and u can put a Playtime ( "In particular, it offers a Session View loosely inspired by the one in Ableton Live. That means it enables you to play loops in a very intuitive way - just by triggering them using your MIDI controller or the graphical user interface." - https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/ ) to the second one voila u a have an Ableton Live

Reaper can save mixer, view, timeline, clip selections states, has VCA fader, inside track midi/audio routing, has project level modulation matrix, VST3, notation etc. etc. etc. so zillions of features so if u like traditional DAWs (or hate design of Live) better but your creativity needs clip based session view than Reaper also can be a valid choice (skin on the video is http://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1748/3%20G ... erThemeZip )

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:41 pm

"Orthodox" multi-track DAWs will usually only loop a selection on the timeline, causing all types of restrictions if you want to record a performance in real-time.

The advantage of Live and the controller in that video is that it allows to select the Track and Clip you want to record into (or playback) pretty fast, in real-time. Then the recorded sequence can auto-loop, while you move on to record in another Clip, and so on.

So, in Live you can record 2 bars of drums that will loop, then record 16 bars of some chord pad (auto loop again), then record 3 minutes of lead improv over those, and it will take 18 bars + 3 minutes, just like the video.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:19 am

Ableton Live has the advantage of hardware support more than other DAWs, so working from the controller seems faster. But, I have seen some videos about FL Studio where the user is really very fast with the mouse! So, everyone making things 100 times a day would be very fast (typing for example?).

For me, I use mostly the mouse/keyboard to control the DAW and the midi keyboard/knobs to control my playing (which I think many are doing the same). So, although I have Live 9 intro and I thought to switch back to it from Bitwig, I finally decided that I'm better with Bitwig than Live and it is better to stay with Bitwig

Bitwig has the best workflow for me (I use midi 90% if not 99% ) and it is really a pleasure to compose with it. Studio One comes second for me and then Ableton Live and finally Reaper. Bitwig is my DAW to go but sometimes I use Studio One (the other two I rarely use). My main focus is to compose in a liner way, but I use the clips to test/arrange new ideas. Bitwig fits perfectly for this workflow and I don't think I want to change it. Here a video about Bitwig explaining what I mean (for those who don't know):

NerdMcBoon · Post by **NerdMcBoon** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:31 am

EnGee wrote:But, I have seen some videos about FL Studio where the user is really very fast with the mouse! So, everyone making things 100 times a day would be very fast (typing for example?).

Indeed! One can get pretty fast in pretty much any DAW.

I'm using Renoise, for example. The ultra fast workflow has always been a trait of trackers. I can control pretty much everything with my computer keyboard and almost never touch the mouse, except were it's actually beneficial (setting sample loop points, editing envelopes etc.).

It's even possible to control the mixer using the computer keyboard.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:00 am

NerdMcBoon wrote:
I'm using Renoise, for example. The ultra fast workflow has always been a trait of trackers. I can control pretty much everything with my computer keyboard and almost never touch the mouse, except were it's actually beneficial (setting sample loop points, editing envelopes etc.).

It's even possible to control the mixer using the computer keyboard.

You made me curious! So, I watched some tutorials about Renoise. Well, it seems nice really so I thought to download the demo, but when I read the restrictions, I stopped:

------------------------------------
Renoise Demo Restrictions

No ASIO support on Windows
Rendering to .wav is disabled
Rendering/resampling selections is disabled
Rendering/freezing plugin instruments to samples is disabled
Nag screens
As ReWire Master, only the first stereo input bus will be available
As ReWire Slave, Renoise will occasionally generate a small subtle hiss
---------------------------------

Really strange restrictions!

zeep · Post by **zeep** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:06 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Is it the edge of Live ?
Live is meant to play music live and that's what you get in Session view. Playing clips live gives different result than tweaking them with mouse in classic Arrangement view.

Personally I never made a significant piece of music in Session view, but I plan to try it out next. Of course it makes sense only if you own a controller and can play an instrument on your own.

Live is capable of playing live, not -meant-.

No producer i know works in Session mode though. Everybody works in the Arrangement view.
Yes there's some that tinker in Session sometimes, setting a few things up, and then port that to Arrangement. But doing that in Arrangement right away is just as easy and saves time in the end so...

mmoncur · Post by **mmoncur** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:06 pm

I start every track in Session mode. It lets me quickly make a bunch of "8-bar loop" sections that complement each other. I usually even arrange them into a whole song by laying out scenes. If I play them in order I get to hear what the song will sound like and I can easily rearrange things. Once I get to the point where I like the basic arrangement and I'm ready to add automation / fills / risers / etc, I hit "record" and play the song into the arrangement, then from then on I work in Arrangement mode.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:05 pm

mmoncur wrote:I start every track in Session mode. It lets me quickly make a bunch of "8-bar loop" sections that complement each other. I usually even arrange them into a whole song by laying out scenes. If I play them in order I get to hear what the song will sound like and I can easily rearrange things. Once I get to the point where I like the basic arrangement and I'm ready to add automation / fills / risers / etc, I hit "record" and play the song into the arrangement, then from then on I work in Arrangement mode.

That's pretty much my workflow too. It sometimes feels too easy ...

NerdMcBoon · Post by **NerdMcBoon** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:39 pm

Here is a really cool workflow video by Audio Damage Chris:

MarlaPodolski · Post by **MarlaPodolski** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:13 am

"Reaper can play projects on different tabs at the same time with own independent timeline, and u can put a Playtime ... In particular, it offers a Session View loosely inspired by the one in Ableton Live. That means it enables you to play loops in a very intuitive way - just by triggering them using your MIDI controller or the graphical user interface to the second one voila u a have an Ableton Live"

This is a good example why I don't and won't use Reaper. You always need to add something to it, whether someone's software or a good half a dozen user scripts, not to mention requiring User skins to make it look decent and not so incredibly piecemeal and ugly. Then, after that, you apparently need to spend the next several weeks or months customising those hideous stock menus and so on. Yes, I know it does record, but I expect something ready 'right out of the box', no matter the price. I'm no tweaker and Reaper is the Tweaker's Toy of DAWs and just very behind the current times in workstations. Reaper was an almost instant Fail for me.

The only two DAWs I use, after being trained on PT and a little of Cubase are Studio One and Live.

Studio One is just splendid of late for its many large and small improvements, a very fast-to-use and modern DAW. However, I really find something very creative, even precious (and I use that word in its best sense) about Live. There is just something about it that is not only fast for creativity's sake but also intriguing -- and that's even before you talk about adding any of the keen hardware made especially for it.

Bitwig looks impressive as well in much the same way; however, I was too far into Live to change course when Bitwig appeared on the scene.

P.S. Love Mr. Bill on Live as was said above.

Don't know much about Live 9 - But the work flow real fast!