about scales used in modern music styles

[Krakatau]

The is a big question about western modern music and by extension all ethnic music styles that are standardized to rule international productions, almost exclusively through chromatic intervals

for instance, i assume that arabic modern styles are usually adapted into harmonic minor or arabic minor scales sometimes, but this case seems an exception to the rule that use even through harmony transition, almost exclusively major/relative minor scales and all there modal transpositions

so at least almost exclusively a single kind of scale, or i'm wrong ?

[MadBrain]

Western music uses lots of chords, so it uses scales that work the best with chords, and it uses chromatic intervals because they work best with chords, yes.

For melody, in addition to the major scale and 3 minor scales (natural minor, melodic minor and harmonic minor) and the diatonic modes of the major scale (mixolydian, dorian, phrygian, lydian), the major and minor pentatonic scales are also very very popular, and the major and minor blues scales as well.


Many other scales are used as well, but they are less common and more specialized... off the top of my head:

- Some scales are used not for the main parts of melody but to match melody with chords and for special effects on those chords. The is includes the so called "chord scale" system used in jazz, which includes the diatonic modes including the locrian mode, all 7 modes of the minor melodic scale, the 8-note diminished scale, and the 6-note augmented scale. Every chord is matched to a scale, which can be used for melody on sections that play the matching chord.

- Some scales are used to sortof simulate Arabic and other Middle-Eastern music. Some people call them "gypsy" scales, or all sorts of names like "egyptian scale", "arabic scale", "spanish scale" etc... but there's really no standard. IRL there isn't really any theory to deal with those scales in Western music and composers just go by ear and wing it.

- Other special effects scales: Chromatic scale. Lydian dominant scale like in the Simpsons intro (F G A B C D Eb in the key of F). Japanese In / Insen pentatonic scales like E F A B C or E F A B D occasionally used to sorta imitate Japanese music.


Western music generally compensates its low variety in scales by having tons of different chords and chord progressions.

[HolisticSongwriting]

Hey Krakatau,

MadBrain summed up all the possibilities of scales nicely. I'd like to add a couple of points if I may:

- Speaking of Pop Music, you're right: In Western music, we almost exclusively use the ionian system (major, minor, and sometimes other modes).

- When it comes to Eastern Music (quick note: I'm not an expert, but I have talked to several classical indian violin players and I've read a couple of books about it), things are quite different. If you generalize, it's easy to say that they're also just using the ionian system and it's easy to make that mistake if you look at their scales.

But first of all, some countries use different intervals (think Raga, think the quarter-tone approach of Turkish siging for example) and secondly, they use these intervals very differently then we do. Us Westerners see a scale as a source of notes and that's it. In classical Indian music, they are much more than that:

They are instructions. They tell you how they are supposed to be played. For example, one such rule might be that there's certain intervals in the scale that can only be approached by downward motion, and others can only be approached by upward motion.

So while the notes are generally similar (BUT: quarter-tone approach!!) - which has to do with the harmonic overtone series - the use of these scales is very different.

Hope this helps, if you have questions, feel free to ask.
Friedemann

[BertKoor]

Whenever I go for a kebab, the TV is on playing modern Turkish or Arab music.
Their traditional instruments aren't tuned to ET12, but synths etc are. Difference is very prominent in the second note of the scale, right inbetween minor and major second. Sounds kinda bluesy.
Anyway, traditional and ET12 tuning is mixed without shame like no one cares both are out of tune. I do cringe...

[Krakatau]

Whenever I go for a kebab, the TV is on playing modern Turkish or Arab music.
Their traditional instruments aren't tuned to ET12, but synths etc are. Difference is very prominent in the second note of the scale, right inbetween minor and major second. Sounds kinda bluesy.
Anyway, traditional and ET12 tuning is mixed without shame like no one cares both are out of tune. I do cringe...

Same with much african music in the subsaharian area, i assume that the use of pitch correction that has become a kind of style in itself in muxh Afro-Beat productions was primarily to correct traditional singer melodic lines to chromatic scales

for melodic instruments it depends the ethnic origin, manding scale for instance is almost totally compatible with lydian mode especially (and it gives some beautiful musics, i can't tell wish one just by hear)

others like Senoufo and Bobo scales are totally achromatic !!!

[Krakatau]

Let say just that the purpose of this thread for me was this :

hoping still i would make some sales with my IR library, and being told that some folks would have been interested in single scales rather than the entire library, i'm then for pragmatic reason interested to know what would be the scales that might interest costumers...and i assume almost exclusively major and natural minor that is as far as i know, included in major scales as a modal transpositions, the aeolian mode i think...

[BertKoor]

I don't know what amount of scales you offer. Say it's 30+... Why not offer them all individually? Let the customer decide for themselves which ones they want to buy for say 10 or 20% of the price of the whole bundle.

An analogy: digital TV. There are hundreds of stations available, sold in packages of a dozen. Of the stations per package I really want just one or two. Why is the seller not offering them individually? Then I'd just buy these!

This is assuming that the hurdle for your potential customers is the price of your whole bundle. I don't know about that. Could also be that your product is not known at all

[Krakatau]

I don't know what amount of scales you offer. Say it's 30+... Why not offer them all individually? Let the customer decide for themselves which ones they want to buy for say 10 or 20% of the price of the whole bundle.

An analogy: digital TV. There are hundreds of stations available, sold in packages of a dozen. Of the stations per package I really want just one or two. Why is the seller not offering them individually? Then I'd just buy these!

This is assuming that the hurdle for your potential customers is the price of your whole bundle. I don't know about that. Could also be that your product is not known at all

well, i've just created a IR library without much notions of the commercial aspects and i don't feel able to handle that aspect myself, so until now it has been sold under Dbu signature (dangerous bear underground)

i just assume that it might be easier for a seller to handle 12 different portion of a library offering the most used scales individually ?

[MadBrain]

In that case you could probably sell a "white keys only" version, that makes it easy to figure out what can be played and what can't (C major, A minor natural). And if black keys still work and play the right note but you share samples between keys (like Bb plays the same sample as B, Ab plays the same sample as A, etc...) then it doubles as a light version.

[Katelyn]

But first of all, some countries use different intervals (think Raga, think the quarter-tone approach of Turkish siging for example) and secondly, they use these intervals very differently then we do. Us Westerners see a scale as a source of notes and that's it. In classical Indian music, they are much more than that:

They are instructions. They tell you how they are supposed to be played. For example, one such rule might be that there's certain intervals in the scale that can only be approached by downward motion, and others can only be approached by upward motion.

So while the notes are generally similar (BUT: quarter-tone approach!!) - which has to do with the harmonic overtone series - the use of these scales is very different.

This is essentially right from what I understand. I'll add though that there are systems such as thaats that are ragas of a sort (if I understand correctly, sometimes they are exactly the same) that always have seven pitches and don't have that rule where you can only can play the note when going up or going down. They are closer to what we see as modes, actually many line up with European church modes, but even they have certain rules. For example the Bhairava/Mayamalavagowla Thaat/Raga put special importance on the tone we would know as G# (if I recall correctly). Actually the Bhairava thaat is the exact same as the Bhairava raga. Westerners might know this as the double harmonic, or arabic scale.

Some rajas have a bunch of more notes and most do have that rule about ascending and descending notes as well as having a primarily important note seen to carry the essence of the raga, as well as a secondary note. From what I recall the note or pitch that's considered to have it's essence is supposed to be prominent in the composition in some way, though it isn't necessarily meant to be the most played note.

As far as chords, they don't really work too well on thaats or ragas. I primarily work with the seven pitch thaats in my composition and the only chords that really fit it are perfect fifths and suspended chords, which I use somewhat sparingly and mostly just on guitars and choirs.

A lot of the chords we know in the west really came out of European church music, and so a lot of native music doesn't have chords if I understand correctly. I at least know this is the case for Hindustani and Indian music as well as some middle eastern regions.