KVR Audio

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:47 pm

EnGee wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
No, not at all. They just like to have different synths for a variety of reasons, not all having to do with the sound itself. I'm not going to get into all the reasons here and now because I have a project to work on in order to prove my point, and I will prove my point.

And as I said, there are a handful of synths that nothing else sounds like. But you can't tell me that, in a mix, you could tell whether I used Monark for a bass line or Arturia's Mini V. With the majority of synths out there, the differences in sound can only be heard isolated and carefully analyzed.

That isn't how people listen to music, so as far as I'm concerned, those comparisons are meaningless. I don't care if XYZ's sawtooth wave is more "true" than ABC's sawtooth wave. So what? Meaningless in the context of music.
Yes, it is difficult to tell between similar synths, but still there is a difference. This tiny differences are what we call "details". Sometimes, people forget the main idea and be obsessed with the details, and sometimes they ignore them. But, IMO, many of the great masterpieces (whatever they are) are in the details. So, that there is a good mixing/mastering engineer and a great mixing/mastering engineer. The great ones, always, care a lot about the details.

The great producers -- and engineers--would effectively use track /region automation, EFX plugins either as inserts or on a bus, and some might even go as far as to use sampled synth sounds.

SoundToys, D16, HorNet, all the saturation/compression vendors, Altiverb, Lex, your DAWs convolution, Boz-- you name it all could add so much to so many different tracks that the details are in the eye of the beholder.

Point Blank just did an excellent tutorial on Granular Synthesis -- and they demonstrated the entire concept and process on tracks with audio clips, using Logic's Time Stretching Algo's, FlexPitch, Automation, and the like. Even Alchemy itself could be used as a glorified sample engine if one so chooses, similar to how Nexus functions, and some would too include Omnisphere.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:50 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
wagtunes wrote:I was going to make this ridiculously hard but decided to make it stupidly simple instead.

24 tracks

1 Drum
23 Bass

Each bass plays for 7 seconds.

Name each synth.

I'll be stunned if anybody gets half of these.

No hints.

Extra brownie points if you guess what made the drums.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -challenge

I don't see the point of that challenge. You have not even tried to make all those 24 synths make the same sound. One might as well play the lottery.
I don't have a clue which synths you used, but I surely prefer some of those bass sounds to the others.

Either way, I think your approach is the wrong way round. Listeners might not be able to tell which synth was used in the mix, but when I make the music, I make my own patches that I like. So to me it is important that an isolated instance of my synth sounds the way I want it to. Your approach basically means that it doesn't matter which synth one uses. But it does matter, at least to me as the one who makes my music. I can't use Hive or some other synth whose sound I don't like just because I know that the listener won't know what I used, anyway.

You have totally missed the point. I don't care what your personal preference is. We all have them. So what? This is all about the claims that each synth has its own unmistakable sound. Guess what? Very few do. Many are totally interchangeable differentiated ONLY by one's personal bias, such as yours.

Listen to some of the OSCs. Some of them are absolutely AMAZING...all made with ONE synth, and a free one at that.

The snobbery surrounding one's choice of synth is what I find so amusing since so many of them make sounds that can easily be made by other synths, especially with external FX.

But by all means, if every synth is so individual in its sound, which synth is which in the track I posted?

You don't have a clue because each synth does NOT have its own individual sound. Not really.

Are there are few? Yes, very, very few.

And even THEY can be disguised to sound like something else.

You might as well play the lottery because you CAN'T tell.

And THAT was my point.

Thank you for confirming it.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:54 pm

If they all sound the same, why do you own so many AND make a long drawn out post about asking for help to choose yet another?

fluffy_little_something · Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:55 pm

I don't follow your logic. I don't even know 24 synths in detail. Your audio and my not being able to tell which is which does not prove at all that those synths don't have their distinct characters. Those bass patches sound very different, so unfortunately one can't really rate them. But I don't know whether they sound so different due to your sound design or whether the synths as such sound different.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:57 pm

How else would he show how many synths he owns?
Tomorrow will be another excuse.

fluffy_little_something · Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:59 pm

tehlord wrote:If they all sound the same, why do you own so many AND make a long drawn out post about asking for help to choose yet another?

Because he makes sound sets for all those morons out there who haven't noticed yet that all synths sound the same

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:00 pm

wagtunes wrote: But by all means, if every synth is so individual in its sound, which synth is which in the track I posted?

You don't have a clue because each synth does NOT have its own individual sound. Not really.

Can you recognize your wife/GF when looking at 24 naked female bottoms in a row?

No, you can't. This means that all women are identical.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:00 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
tehlord wrote:If they all sound the same, why do you own so many AND make a long drawn out post about asking for help to choose yet another?
Because he makes sound sets for all those morons out there who haven't noticed yet that all synths sound the same

Oh I know he does.

Everybody knows he does.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:03 pm

recursive one wrote:wife/GF

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:05 pm

Hey you guys are all so smart, which synth is which?

I'm still waiting.

fluffy_little_something · Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:06 pm

recursive one wrote:
wagtunes wrote: But by all means, if every synth is so individual in its sound, which synth is which in the track I posted?

You don't have a clue because each synth does NOT have its own individual sound. Not really.
Can you recognize your wife/GF when looking at 24 naked female bottoms in a row?

No, you can't. This means that all women are identical.

Actually, I think it is much easier to tell bottoms apart

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:23 pm

wagtunes wrote:Hey you guys are all so smart, which synth is which?

I'm still waiting.

This is not relevant in 2016 for sure!

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:35 pm

Cinebient wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Hey you guys are all so smart, which synth is which?

I'm still waiting.
This is not relevant in 2016 for sure!

You're right. It's not. Because any genius at the controls can turn any synth into a totally different beast between programming and FX.

That's why you can make just about any kind of music with just about any kind of synth with very few exceptions and, in some cases, with a lot more work than if you used a different synth.

But yes, what synth you use, in the final mix, is almost totally irrelevant with those few exceptions.

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:43 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Hey you guys are all so smart, which synth is which?

I'm still waiting.
This is not relevant in 2016 for sure!
You're right. It's not. Because any genius at the controls can turn any synth into a totally different beast between programming and FX.

That's why you can make just about any kind of music with just about any kind of synth with very few exceptions and, in some cases, with a lot more work than if you used a different synth.

But yes, what synth you use, in the final mix, is almost totally irrelevant with those few exceptions.

I really totally agree that it doesn´t matter for a listener but not for the musician. Most of my iPhone synths plus some extern FX can do it and nobody could tell it´s made on a freaking smartphone with 5 dollar synths but it has nothing do to with the topic here and there is more than just a sound generator in a synth (as you know of course).
I see all my tools as giant modular sound generator and each tool has it´s own pro and contra.
So to combine them is the only way to get what i want.
I have cheap synths which can do things which all my expensive ones can´t.
I have synths which sounds similar but they have different GUI, modulation options, workflow....bla bla bla etc.
Again....wrong topic here!

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:46 pm

Wagtunes, when you say that character of a synth is not relevant, you are shooting yourself in the foot. What's the difference between you as a sound designer and a randomizer knob then? The art of sound design is taking a synth and making it show its best, it is much more than just assigning few modulations and tweaking a couple of random knobs. Knowing the character of a synth is utterly important.

Is Sylenth still relevant in 2016?