i may be speaking out of turn, but i would have a use for BOTH
how do i find out how much a plugin is delaying?
Does FLStudio have PDC?
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
ahem..
i may be speaking out of turn, but i would have a use for BOTH
how do i find out how much a plugin is delaying?
i may be speaking out of turn, but i would have a use for BOTH
how do i find out how much a plugin is delaying?
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- KVRian
- 1202 posts since 8 May, 2003 from Munich
(i was being sarcastic.. snide remark 
)
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
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- Banned
- 4073 posts since 15 Mar, 2004
I am glad you said that or I would have had to sick some bad mojo on yasxRAVENx wrote:(i was being sarcastic.. snide remark
. PDC is ESSENTIAL for many of the plungins I use in FL Studio - and it's NOT a Fruity problem alone, but (depending on your ears and the seriousness and concern of making your work sound good) it's a problem for anyone who is using a lot of diverse VSTi in a sophisticated sequencer host based on even the most recent best CPU's out there.
That said, any decent muddling reverb conquers a lot of these problems for the 'less perfectionist' of us...
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- KVRist
- 161 posts since 26 May, 2001
quote=Xander
In other words, what you are saying is simply not true - unless you are running a Cray Liquid Nitrogen-cooled CPU and spending $10,000.00 dollars a day to use it after spending a year on the processor waiting list at Livermore Labs...
Plugin latency has absolutely nothing to do with performance, it has to do with internal buffer size of the plugin (which in turn has everything to do with the algo used).
In other words, what you are saying is simply not true - unless you are running a Cray Liquid Nitrogen-cooled CPU and spending $10,000.00 dollars a day to use it after spending a year on the processor waiting list at Livermore Labs...
Plugin latency has absolutely nothing to do with performance, it has to do with internal buffer size of the plugin (which in turn has everything to do with the algo used).
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- KVRer
- 21 posts since 2 Oct, 2003
xander, yer on crack (respectfully).
performance and latency are indeed entirely different.
edit: for example, a non-convolving reverb can act on samples in a buffer as soon as it reads them, it doesn't need to know what comes after them. a look-ahead limiter, however, reads ahead in the buffer to decide whether it wants to compress something. since reading ahead in a buffer isn't something a plugin can do, what most look-ahead limiters do is read the buffer it's sent but delay its processing a certain number of samples so it gets a good look at what is coming up later, then it decides what to do with the peaks. in that case, when it delivers audio back to the host, the audio is late. PDC hosts query the plugins for what delays they need, and adjust the buffers per plugin so that everything comes out synced. like mirabebe said, the large majority of fx do not require lookahead and thus, no PDC is necessary.
this has nothing to do with VSTi's either, those are buffered in a similar way. also, by definition a softsynth may have a processing latency due to performance, but no internal latency because they generate sound on the fly.
performance and latency are indeed entirely different.
edit: for example, a non-convolving reverb can act on samples in a buffer as soon as it reads them, it doesn't need to know what comes after them. a look-ahead limiter, however, reads ahead in the buffer to decide whether it wants to compress something. since reading ahead in a buffer isn't something a plugin can do, what most look-ahead limiters do is read the buffer it's sent but delay its processing a certain number of samples so it gets a good look at what is coming up later, then it decides what to do with the peaks. in that case, when it delivers audio back to the host, the audio is late. PDC hosts query the plugins for what delays they need, and adjust the buffers per plugin so that everything comes out synced. like mirabebe said, the large majority of fx do not require lookahead and thus, no PDC is necessary.
this has nothing to do with VSTi's either, those are buffered in a similar way. also, by definition a softsynth may have a processing latency due to performance, but no internal latency because they generate sound on the fly.
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- KVRist
- 161 posts since 26 May, 2001
I appreciate you stepping in.
Xander, next time you decide to get personal with me - please avoid embarassement and make sure that you have at least a very basic understanding of the topic involved.
I had no intention to mislead the poster i replied to, nor did any of your ignorant statements made my reply invalid in any way.
I maintain that 99% of plugins out there are zero-latency, meaning that they do not buffer incoming audio and perform their operations on sample-by sample basis.
While i agree that PDC would be a nice feature, it's also not the end of the world. In additoin to that - FL Studio is mainly realtime composition host - and PDC, as well as plugins that require PDC - are not really created for realtime composition.
Xander, next time you decide to get personal with me - please avoid embarassement and make sure that you have at least a very basic understanding of the topic involved.
I had no intention to mislead the poster i replied to, nor did any of your ignorant statements made my reply invalid in any way.
I maintain that 99% of plugins out there are zero-latency, meaning that they do not buffer incoming audio and perform their operations on sample-by sample basis.
While i agree that PDC would be a nice feature, it's also not the end of the world. In additoin to that - FL Studio is mainly realtime composition host - and PDC, as well as plugins that require PDC - are not really created for realtime composition.
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- KVRAF
- 11380 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
I'd really like to see FL studio have even the basic track plugin delay compensation. I don't care if the sends are compensated or not but damn, make the tracks compensate the plugins.
But, the worst thing BY FAR is that the MASTER CHANNEL does not compensate VST plugins in any way. So, when inserting some mastering processor that uses look ahead (most do) or other kinds of buffering, your rendered loop/song will have that latency in the file.. and this is really bad if you have to do multiple renders of parts that you want to mix later into a song in another program.
I seriously HATE that about fruity.
Everything else is very well about the software EXCEPT that part.
I understand this is a problem with the current track routing system but maybe give the user an option of either compensating for the plugins in a given track and not being able to route any other tracks to it or being able to route tracks freely but lose the compensation.
Cheers!
bManic
Ps. I'm no coder so Gol, feel free to rip me apart *prepares himself for the green mile"
But, the worst thing BY FAR is that the MASTER CHANNEL does not compensate VST plugins in any way. So, when inserting some mastering processor that uses look ahead (most do) or other kinds of buffering, your rendered loop/song will have that latency in the file.. and this is really bad if you have to do multiple renders of parts that you want to mix later into a song in another program.
I seriously HATE that about fruity.
Everything else is very well about the software EXCEPT that part.I understand this is a problem with the current track routing system but maybe give the user an option of either compensating for the plugins in a given track and not being able to route any other tracks to it or being able to route tracks freely but lose the compensation.
Cheers!
bManic
Ps. I'm no coder so Gol, feel free to rip me apart
*prepares himself for the green mile"-
- KVRAF
- 2097 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from Nearish Detroit, MI
Hey there. Call me stupid, and correct me if I'm wrong, and then call me Shirley, but don't douse me with gasoline and set fire to me, but I think there is a beta version of the FL Wrapper available for download which allows PDC...
Or maybe that's just for fixed buffer sizes...
Still, this sounds like something Gol could code in a weekend, if there was sufficient interest (if there isn't some kludgy workaround out there already).
Ah, yes, leave it to AnalogX:
http://www.analogx.com/contents/downloa ... sslide.htm
Or maybe that's just for fixed buffer sizes...
Still, this sounds like something Gol could code in a weekend, if there was sufficient interest (if there isn't some kludgy workaround out there already).
Ah, yes, leave it to AnalogX:
http://www.analogx.com/contents/downloa ... sslide.htm
GLHF! (Gandalf Lives, Hobbits Forever!)
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- KVRAF
- 11380 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
Blaah.. there are quite a lot of nice FFT based effects out there, some with a very small (but annoying enough) latency. I don't know what your fancy of plugins are but quite a bunch that I know of have some small kind of latency, including some compressors that operate with look ahead. What I'm trying to say is that, change that 99% to 95% and I might agree with youMirabebe wrote: I maintain that 99% of plugins out there are zero-latency, meaning that they do not buffer incoming audio and perform their operations on sample-by sample basis.
.Now that I don't agree with at all coz very few of the heavier FFT effects or even convolution have that kind of latency that would cause problems when running FL Studio in a live situation. The only problem that could arise is if you run some external signal TROUGH the fruity mixer. Then you'd possible run into timing problems.Mirabebe wrote: While i agree that PDC would be a nice feature, it's also not the end of the world. In additoin to that - FL Studio is mainly realtime composition host - and PDC, as well as plugins that require PDC - are not really created for realtime composition.
Cheers!
bManic
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- KVRist
- 161 posts since 26 May, 2001
Bmanic: I understand where you are coming from on both your points.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
I think PDC is a useful feature no matter who you are and what you use. I remember when i was learning PT a few years ago and had to calculate and manually compensate for plug in delays. What a f**king blag! Nice to see the new version of PT along with many native hosts now have this as standard. Dont know if Fruity has it or not (never used it), but Im sure it will be impemented in the future!
PS. How f**king bad is Vintage Warmer! Used it in Wavelab the other day and racked up about 5 seconds (i am ofcourse exagerating here!).
PS. How f**king bad is Vintage Warmer! Used it in Wavelab the other day and racked up about 5 seconds (i am ofcourse exagerating here!).
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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