Sampler/platform or separate libraries for "normal" instruments

[m3adi3c]

I'm a guitarist exclusively and I mostly play rock and metal. As such, I need various virtual instruments, starting with the basics (drums and bass), but sometimes going for more "exotic" instruments, such as orchestral (ensembles or solos), electric pianos, organs, choirs and the like. However, I *do not* use or need synths for various soundscapes, effects and sounds or noises that some bands or genres need.

I'm settled with drums (using Superior and EZ), I also have Shreddage Bass 2, but wouldn't mind for another good bass library and in rest, I'm searching for content (acoustic and electric pianos, organs, orchestral strings, solo and ensemble, choirs mainly).

As such, here's my dilemma(s) and my call for help and opinions:

I use Logic Pro X and I find its factory library quite decent. However, I do not like the pianos and voices, although the strings (especially cellos and upright basses) are OK.

As alternatives, of course, there's Kontakt. But recently I found of other samplers and platforms from UVI, for example.

The basic questions are the following:

1. Is Kontakt (full, not player) factory library good enough, i.e. significantly better than Logic's to be happy with it without spending quite a lot more on other 1st or 3rd party libraries? Because else, since I don't do scripting or advanced editing, I have no reason of purchasing the full Kontakt just for the "platform" and to remove the demo mode for unauthorised 3rd party libraries...

2. Are there better alternatives (e.g. UVI Falcon or let me know of more) of samplers which are not especially meant for EDM, "unnatural" synths etc, but which have libraries of "normal" instruments?

3. Am I better of altogether getting VIs that are "standalone" (e.g. Garritan, AAS, AmpleSound, Addictive Keys, EZKeys — feel free to add more recommendations)?

Finally, let me add that I am no pro, I'm just a bedroom guitarist with not a lot to spend and I make no money from my music, just fun. So although 8dio, Soundiron, Spitfire, Spectrasonics have awesome products, there's no way I'd pay hundreds of euros just for one instrument...

Thank you for your time.

P.S. I'm sure this is an ardent debate which must've been discussed already. Sorry if I gave any of you the "here we go again..." feeling.

[whyterabbyt]

Sounds a bit like you're looking for a fairly broad rompler-ish set of sounds; the factory Kontakt library is okay, but not outstandig, and maybe not as broad as you might want. Though I'd point out that with a fairly small budget and a gander at Sampleism and some of the free Kontakt libraries out there(*), you could probably pad out the Kontakt library with some very nice bits and pieces to plug the gaps. (SoundIron actually do quite a lot of budget libraries too, btw.)

(* Pretty much full-version Kontakt only though)

Your alternative is in classic rompler territory. Falcon's factory library isnt up really to thatterritory, you'd have to purchase other libraries there too, Plugsound Pro is probably the most 'bread and butter' . Sampletank3 is an option you didnt mention, best found cheap on one of their regular sales.

Right now, though, you'll get AIR Xpand2 and a decent rompler-y library for $1 from PluginBoutique. I'd say, get that, then work out where your specific gaps are...

[DSmolken]

If you're not looking to spend a lot of money, it might be worth getting the full version of Kontakt because there are a lot of free libraries available for it, as whyterabbit has already mentioned, and the factory library will cover a lot of ground. You can get a crossgrade price since you already have the Shreddage bass. I personally don't have Kontakt, but in your case it might be worth it.

Also get a good budget orchestra. You could also try Sonatina, No Budget Orchestra and VSCO Community Edition for free, but I think it's worth investing in something nicer. Also consider one of the basic VSL packages, Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, Miroslav 2 CE, or various EastWest editions are all stuff you could look at and get a complete orchestra, or orchestra plus choir, without spending a lot.

Pianos - get Estate Grand LE and Ivy Audio Piano In 162, both free and both great. For electric pianos there are good freebies also - I use 4Front RPiano and the ancient lazysnake a lot. If you're not happy with those, there are lots of commercial options, but in general Yamaha grand pianos are often used in rock because they are easier to mix than Steinways etc, so look at those first.

For more basses, again lots of options. If you have the Shreddage bass, I guess you'll want something more vintage-sounding for variety? Ample and Orange Tree have some good options (though Orange Tree's require the full version of Kontakt). I've made quite a few free basses for the free Plogue Sforzando sampler, and you can find them here along with a cello and some other stuff. Not Shreddage level of realism and detail, but hey, they're free. http://www.karoryfer.com/karoryfer-samples

And do you need non-classical horns?

[kinwie]

I just have the free Ample Bass P Lite II plugin installed in my pro tools and find it incredibly great.
It sit really really well in the mix with programmed-drums track (I plug Studio Devil VBA after it).
So I'm going to get the full version soon, absolutely worth my $119 for that quality and features.

[m3adi3c]

Thank you for all your replies.

Let me try to cover everything.

Regarding AmpleSound basses, I absolutely love them, but the main problem is that I most of the times play lower than A (I have a baritone 7 which I keep in G# or even lower). That's why I got Shreddage. For more vintage and "classical" bass sound, I have the Scarbee Pre and J basses from NI, but I found them quite dull. Maybe I didn't play with them appropriately (i.e. stuff that goes after it in the fx chain, mixing, programming etc.). So until Ample releases a 6 string bass to replace Shreddage or I get a bit more money for their J or Ray, I'll say I'm pretty much covered with bass.

Regarding orchestra, first of all, no, I don't need non-classical horns. As for SampleTank, I have the SE variant, which I got for free with an iRig Pro, but I didn't find anything particularly good in it. I was considering purchasing either Miroslav CE or full SampleTank, but I couldn't decide, because I didn't want to be disappointed, I didn't see or hear much praise for them.

I do have some soundfonts, but again, maybe I need to experiment more with them, because all of them seem to sound quite "electronic". That's why I was considering Garritan or full Kontakt.

I know absolutely nothing about AIR, I'll check them out, thanks.

I don't know, I find it quite hard to make a decision, I assume that the full Kontakt will be the best option, first because of it's popularity, which means that I can find a lot of presets and tutorials and then because it will allow me to add many other libraries to it, should there be any sales, bargains and everything. I know I qualify for the crossgrade, but I was thinking maybe I can get it for less than €250 (its crossgrade price), either via a sale, or via the marketplace.

Overall, would you say that SampleTank full + Miroslav CE is significantly better than Kontakt factory library? Or am I better off with Garritan and some choirs which can be used with Kontakt player? I cannot get EastWest, because I don't have an iLok and I don't even want one.

And why hasn't anyone said anything about Addictive Keys or EZKeys for...keys? Are there that much better options on the market for that price? AK was running around $50 in the marketplace, with one acoustic and one electric and I was thinking, to benefit from the songwriting features, I could look for some EZKeys sales or second hand.

[DSmolken]

Regarding AmpleSound basses, I absolutely love them, but the main problem is that I most of the times play lower than A (I have a baritone 7 which I keep in G# or even lower). That's why I got Shreddage.

Yup, if you need super-low notes then Shreddage makes a lot of sense. The Ample Metal Ray only goes down to A, not sure how many non-Shreddage bass guitars go lower.

Overall, would you say that SampleTank full + Miroslav CE is significantly better than Kontakt factory library? Or am I better off with Garritan and some choirs which can be used with Kontakt player? I cannot get EastWest, because I don't have an iLok and I don't even want one.

OK, that narrows it down. The Kontakt factory library is pretty old right now, so I think you can do better with something else. Miroslav and Garritan are very different. Miroslav is kind of like an old hardware rompler library on steroids - doesn't have dynamics on sustained instruments controlled by modwheel, and instead has dynamics layers on keyswitches etc. It's also not very concerned with having the standard instrument ranges covered, instead focusing on what sounds good, so switch the trumpet articulations and you might not have some of the lowest notes accessible anymore. Choirs in the full Miroslav 2 are nice, too, though I'm not sure if those are included in the CE.

Garritan is pretty academic in approach, which makes sense as it's also bundled in notation software, so it always covers the standard range and also lets you build sections of any size that would be possible in a real orchestra. Is the difference between two flutes and three flutes important to you? Probably not, since you're not doing MIDI mockups of stuff that will be performed by real orchestras. I do like the small string sections for a "we hired a few players for a session and not the whole orchestra" sound, though. And the choirs are quite nice, as nice as they can be given the small size.

Also consider VSL, whatever their cheapest basic edition is.

And why hasn't anyone said anything about Addictive Keys or EZKeys for...keys? Are there that much better options on the market for that price? AK was running around $50 in the marketplace, with one acoustic and one electric and I was thinking, to benefit from the songwriting features, I could look for some EZKeys sales or second hand.

Mostly because free keys are really pretty good, heh. And so are the main pianos bundled with Miroslav (again, not sure about CE) and Garritan. But you could also look at the Stage edition of Pianoteq - not too expensive, and if you get the e-piano flavor you still get the historical pianos thrown in. That includes stuff from harpsichords to early XX century grands - I use the Pleyel grand a lot in my tracks.

[m3adi3c]

Right, thanks. I'll have a look at VSL, although it seems intimidating, since the bundles are quite expensive and builing one's orchestra from packs is not only expensive, but you really have to know what you're doing.

Regarding bass, I considered for a brief moment getting Trilian. It's such a workhorse and gets a lot of attention. But it is also quite old and I wrote to the company suggesting some improvements and they said they cannot promise anything regarding the future of the product. On the one hand, it may be standard practice, but on the other, I really think it's abandonware, still feeding from its glory. And once I discovered Ample, I can't wait for them to make an upright and a 6 string bass, I'll be so over it, even if I'll sleep on the doormat, haha.

For keys, I downloaded the Ivy Piano and the Estate Grand LE, I'll see what I can do with it. I've also heard great things about Pianoteq, it may be worth considering.

To be completely honest, I'm not exactly trained in the classical instruments, so if I really have to know what I'm looking for and distinguish between very similar instruments, I'm a bit lost. I was hoping to find some kind of Kontakt or Miroslav alternative which bundles everything and saves you the decision though process whether you really need or like this and that. Then it would've been just a matter of learning, resting assured you've got in that package everything you need, just waiting to be discovered.

But I do appreciate your very detailed answers, at least they've contributed to my reserves with respect to Kontakt and even Miroslav.

Thanks again.

[DSmolken]

With VSL, just take a look at VSL Special Edition 1 and see if that would cover your needs or not. And maybe Special Edition 4 for the choir. Ignore all the rest!

[m3adi3c]

Yes, it does seem to cover my needs, if I get along well with the free sfz pianos that I downloaded or Pianoteq (I see that VSL Special Edition 1 has only one grand piano).

Oh, and not to forget voices... I heard good things about Olympus Micro Choir. I'm mostly interested in some kind of atmospheric, Gregorian-like choir, but not too lush, lost in reverb or other fx.

If the content of VSL is "modular" and one can always add more instruments or ensembles, for the time being, I would only stricty need the strings. Does it work like this, buy another volume/collection and it simply adds up to your library/orchestra?

[DSmolken]

If the content of VSL is "modular" and one can always add more instruments or ensembles, for the time being, I would only stricty need the strings. Does it work like this, buy another volume/collection and it simply adds up to your library/orchestra?

Yeah, you could get SE1 and then later if you decide you want more detailed strings go for their Dimension strings, so you'd have everything covered at a basic level but have really great strings. Or get strings from Spitfire or Orchestral Tools or Cinematic Studio or whoever else instead - there'd be more learning new stuff involved, but it should be no big deal.

Or you could just get great strings now and just hope you don't need any woodwinds, brass or orchestral percussion that can't be done with free stuff. Strings are important and useful, but I'd still recommend starting out with a decent complete orchestra and not just strings. Bigger palette, more options and all that.

Another thing I should mention is that VSL, Garritan and Miroslav are all pretty classical in sound, as opposed to cinematic. But as a rock guitarist, that's probably OK.

[m3adi3c]

Okay, I have "purchased" AIR Xpand2, getting it for free using virtual cash. I have to say I'm quite impressed, it sounds very good to my ears. Same holds for the two free pianos for sfz you've recommended, thanks a bunch for all of this!

Now I've narrowed my search to strings and vocal libraries, both solo and ensembles (choirs, respectively).

I understood that VSL is an awesome option and I'm sure about that, but since I'm only looking for strings and voices now, could you recommend some alternatives?

For voices, how's Soundiron's Olympus Elements? Is it worth a lot to get the bigger, Requiem Light? Both are on sale now.

And for strings?

Also, I feel the need of asking again: would Garritan's Instant Orchestra be a safe buy? It's on sale for around €100 which makes it quite tempting and moreover, it looks quite feature rich. Would I really be far better off with, say, VSL + some choir + maybe some Pianoteq? Because the price difference between the two is really big (more than 2x actually).

And I have just discovered one more option: UVI's Orchestral Suite: http://www.uvi.net/en/orchestral-compos ... nstruments What do you think about it?

Thanks again for all the contributions.

[anomandaris1]

Requiem Light is good for epic trailer music.
If you want for more flexible choir, get Olympus elements, it's great and don't forget to check all youtube demos and screencasts.

[DSmolken]

Also, I feel the need of asking again: would Garritan's Instant Orchestra be a safe buy? It's on sale for around €100 which makes it quite tempting and moreover, it looks quite feature rich.

Garritan Personal Orchestra I'd say is a pretty safe buy. Instant Orchestra's concept is quite different than the other orchestral packages we've talked about here - it's all about quickly getting a big sound without worrying about the orchestration. It's pretty old and small in GB terms, so you wouldn't really get much sample content for your money. But it might be perfect as a companion for XPand, if you want orchestral sounds without digging much into the orchestra world.

I think digging into that world is half the fun, but that's me.

And I have just discovered one more option: UVI's Orchestral Suite: http://www.uvi.net/en/orchestral-compos ... nstruments What do you think about it?

Haven't tried it, but looking at the specs it's also quite small, at under 5 GB.

Have you tried the free orchestras? If nothing else, you could use them to figure out which parts of the orchestra and which features are more important to you than others.

[m3adi3c]

It may be well worth it getting into the orchestration part, I can agree.

I haven't tried free orchestras, to be honest, I've played mostly with Logic's instruments. I am now downloading No Budget Orchestra and Sonatina. If you have further recommendations, please add.

You're right, I should pay more atention to what I have or what is (almost) freely available and figure what exactly I need more, especially being tight on the budget and time, to some extent.

[DSmolken]

I think the Logic stuff and those two free orchestras should be enough to get an idea of what areas you feel the most need to improve.