By no means am I a master composer or is my music theory game well articulated, but I would like to possibly start a discussion on tuning and microtuning.
I find that I have increasingly had more success (happy with my productions) when I tune my instruments via a tuner (I'm almost strictly an electronic musician). I find it annoying when a VST/AU instrument doesn't have a microtuning function and I cant tune something within a few cents of a given frequency. I notice that the timbre and tuning plays a huge part in the feel of my music, and that in order to harmonize with samples, tuning is also a huge factor.
I have favored VST instruments such as NI Kontakt, UVI Synths, XLN Addictive Keys (!), ReFx Nexus etc. just because of the easy tuning factor. Being able to tune these instruments makes using them together in harmony a lot easier. Does anybody have any other recommendations on plugins for this?
How important is tuning and microtuning for you? Maybe someone can break down the science of timbre and tune more clearly? What are you tuning to (A=440hz?)?
Personally, I think this is a relatively unspoken subject between musicians, at least in my experience. Like I said, I'm no expert.
Cheers,
Amuro
The Importance of Tuning & Microtuning
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa
Are your synths out of tune? I've only checked certain sample sets for ROMplers that I know I've had problems with in the past, and usually, I have to adjust the tuning on those. But those are samples. I haven't had a synth yet that I've heard far enough out of tune for me to check the tuning. (And yes, I know that even in VST "synths", even the original waveforms are samples, and could potentially be out of tune. I just haven't seen that yet.)AmuroFord wrote:By no means am I a master composer or is my music theory game well articulated, but I would like to possibly start a discussion on tuning and microtuning.
I find that I have increasingly had more success (happy with my productions) when I tune my instruments via a tuner (I'm almost strictly an electronic musician). I find it annoying when a VST/AU instrument doesn't have a microtuning function and I cant tune something within a few cents of a given frequency. I notice that the timbre and tuning plays a huge part in the feel of my music, and that in order to harmonize with samples, tuning is also a huge factor.
I have favored VST instruments such as NI Kontakt, UVI Synths, XLN Addictive Keys (!), ReFx Nexus etc. just because of the easy tuning factor. Being able to tune these instruments makes using them together in harmony a lot easier. Does anybody have any other recommendations on plugins for this?
How important is tuning and microtuning for you? Maybe someone can break down the science of timbre and tune down more clearly? What are you tuning to (A=440hz?)?
Personally, I think this is relatively unspoken subject between musicians, at least in my experience. Like I said, I'm no expert.
Cheers,
Amuro
I tune to A=440 when I do, and certainly for my guitars. But other than guitars and a few pesky sample libraries, I don't tune the synths.
Why are you tuning yours? Aren't they already in tune?
Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 82 posts since 10 Jan, 2016 from California
I wouldn't say they are horribly 'out of tune'. When it comes to playing instruments (especially from different sources/manufacturers), I notice slight differences in tune and timbre that make them more less likely to sound in harmony. For example, if I were to throw a tuner on two instruments from different sources, I might notice a 15 to 30 cent difference between A notes on each. Bringing them closer together (i.e. closer to 440hz) makes them more in tune with each other which, in turn, gives me more ability to blend the two instruments.planetearth wrote: Are your synths out of tune? I've only checked certain sample sets for ROMplers that I know I've had problems with in the past, and usually, I have to adjust the tuning on those. But those are samples. I haven't had a synth yet that I've heard far enough out of tune for me to check the tuning. (And yes, I know that even in VST "synths", even the original waveforms are samples, and could potentially be out of tune. I just haven't seen that yet.)
I tune to A=440 when I do, and certainly for my guitars. But other than guitars and a few pesky sample libraries, I don't tune the synths.
Why are you tuning yours? Aren't they already in tune?
Steve
For the musicians that maybe likes two sounds, but playing them together sounds out of tune: microtuning seems to be the way. I've always had this problem when trying to match a bass line to a sample, for instance.
I dont know if you've ever had a chance to play with XLN's Addictive Keys, but in the session settings you can adjust the temperament to all kinds of different presets (Pythagorean, Valotti, to name a couple). I dont quite understand all the mathematics behind the different tuning temperaments, but to my ear it seems to make a big difference. I would like to know about more synths or ROMplers that have this ability to 'fine' tune by the cent. I like having control over that aspect of the instrument, personally.
And I've never quite understood the difference between detuning and tuning. Maybe someone can explain?
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa
Tuning and detuning are simply opposites. You would tune two instruments together, or detune one instrument relative to the other. That is, one would stay at A=440, but the other would be tuned to A=430 (or 450, or whatever). Tuning is bringing the instruments closer together in pitch; detuning puts them farther apart in pitch.AmuroFord wrote:I wouldn't say they are horribly 'out of tune'. When it comes to playing instruments (especially from different sources/manufacturers), I notice slight differences in tune and timbre that make them more less likely to sound in harmony. For example, if I were to throw a tuner on two instruments from different sources, I might notice a 15 to 30 cent difference between A notes on each. Bringing them closer together (i.e. closer to 440hz) makes them more in tune with each other which, in turn, gives me more ability to blend the two instruments.planetearth wrote: Are your synths out of tune? I've only checked certain sample sets for ROMplers that I know I've had problems with in the past, and usually, I have to adjust the tuning on those. But those are samples. I haven't had a synth yet that I've heard far enough out of tune for me to check the tuning. (And yes, I know that even in VST "synths", even the original waveforms are samples, and could potentially be out of tune. I just haven't seen that yet.)
I tune to A=440 when I do, and certainly for my guitars. But other than guitars and a few pesky sample libraries, I don't tune the synths.
Why are you tuning yours? Aren't they already in tune?
Steve
For the musicians that maybe likes two sounds, but playing them together sounds out of tune: microtuning seems to be the way. I've always had this problem when trying to match a bass line to a sample, for instance.
I dont know if you've ever had a chance to play with XLN's Addictive Keys, but in the session settings you can adjust the temperament to all kinds of different presets (Pythagorean, Valotti, to name a couple). I dont quite understand all the mathematics behind the different tuning temperaments, but to my ear it seems to make a big difference. I would like to know about more synths or ROMplers that have this ability to 'fine' tune by the cent. I like having control over that aspect of the instrument, personally.
And I've never quite understood the difference between detuning and tuning. Maybe someone can explain?
With Pythagorean, Valottie and others, you're talking about different types of tuning. And first of all, pianos should not have their tunings changed. They should be set to "stretched", or whatever your VST's equivalent is. The reason for that has to do with the way the octaves work and a whole bunch of other physics and junk. Suffice to say, while you can change the tuning of a piano, the outer octaves won't be in tune if you do. This can apply to electric pianos too, if you have a full (88-key) keybed.
The different tunings can make a difference, and you can use them however you want. Just make sure all your ROMplers support whichever tuning you choose. I've used alternate tunings in a couple of pieces, and they are interesting.
That said, if you're finding the tuning of patches in different VSTs to be off by more than 2 or 3 cents, you should probably fix them, yes. Detuning two VSTs with similar patches can make for a fatter sound, but if you're not layering them (and you're only using one), then what you really have is one VST that's out of tune. But before you check the tuning, make sure the effects are bypassed for the patch--especially the chorus or vibrato/tremolo. And if you have one particular synth with many patches that are consistently sharp or flat, check the synth's overall tuning, and adjust that. And then tell the developer!
If you want to get into different types of tuning, check out Scala's software: http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/. Many VSTs support the alternate tunings you can create with this. You can also get some good information on microtunings here: http://www.merkabamusic.com/temple-of-d ... ple-guide/.
Hope some of this helps!
Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 82 posts since 10 Jan, 2016 from California
Steve,
All excellent points, especially the dry tuning without the effect patches in place. I hadn't thought of that.
I am also loving these links! Just getting around to opening them, and I'm already fascinated. Very big thanks!
Great stuff!
Cheers,
Amuro
All excellent points, especially the dry tuning without the effect patches in place. I hadn't thought of that.
I am also loving these links! Just getting around to opening them, and I'm already fascinated. Very big thanks!
Great stuff!
Cheers,
Amuro
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 82 posts since 10 Jan, 2016 from California
Already doing some slight digging into these sites and I found these:
http://mathemagicalmusic.weebly.com/
http://whatmusicreallyis.com/research/
Homework for the week.
http://mathemagicalmusic.weebly.com/
http://whatmusicreallyis.com/research/
Homework for the week.
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- KVRAF
- 2394 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa
Yes, there's a lot out there, outside of our "standard" Just Intonation Tuning that we in the West have used for centuries. Who knows--you might find yourself composing everything in an alternate tuning from now on. Several composers have done it, though keep in mind that your audience may wonder why some of the notes they hear appear to be "out-of-tune" from what they expect!AmuroFord wrote:Already doing some slight digging into these sites and I found these:
http://mathemagicalmusic.weebly.com/
http://whatmusicreallyis.com/research/
Homework for the week.
Oh, and thanks to this conversation, I'm checking the tuning in more of my synths and samplers now. You can never be too sure, right?
Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.
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- KVRian
- 1002 posts since 1 Dec, 2004
I make most of my music in trackers. Since they are sample-based, I always make sure my samples are in tune with each other... When all your samples are on standard C (A=440hz), normally this goes pretty fast but there are often going to be small tuning discrepancies (especially with less-than-professional samples). It doesn't really matter what your samples are tuned to as long as all the instruments in your song are in tune with each other. If you're using VST synths, those are normally tuned to standard C so you will want to tune your samples to that. Some VST synth patches can be somewhat out of tune due to oscillator detune or detuning caused by filter cutoff going up or down fast so it makes sense to check for that too.
As for intonation / scale (basically the tuning between the notes of the scale), for Western music, the standard equal temperament works perfectly well and there are tons of composers that have never needed notes from outside of it. You can use other temperaments if it suits your music, but in real life it's extremely rare to use other temperaments unless you play something like Arabic music or you're an experimental composer of a certain kind.
As for intonation / scale (basically the tuning between the notes of the scale), for Western music, the standard equal temperament works perfectly well and there are tons of composers that have never needed notes from outside of it. You can use other temperaments if it suits your music, but in real life it's extremely rare to use other temperaments unless you play something like Arabic music or you're an experimental composer of a certain kind.