Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

[Urs]

Why would he approach you just because some Sylenth1 users wish it had your protection system?

Because word got out that I have something to offer...? Because I have earned my stripes and I am a respected developer? Because one of my alleged hobbies is copy protection?

[chk071]

Could you link perhaps to the posts of "their users"

I'd have to search for them. It was probably a year ago, around the time they announced V3. There were even two or three people who wrote emails to us, suggesting to approach Lennar (or was it a Reuben at that time?). Can you please take my word on this? Just this once?

Yes, for sure. It's just that a couple of posts and PM's don't make a "user base". Not even 100 posts of forum users make a user base. The majority of the thousands of users of your products don't live on forums either. I would assume even the least are regular visitors of internet forums.

[Cyoon]

..It was their own users.

wich is certainly right, even if it's just two of them.

[Urs]

Could you link perhaps to the posts of "their users"

I'd have to search for them. It was probably a year ago, around the time they announced V3. There were even two or three people who wrote emails to us, suggesting to approach Lennar (or was it a Reuben at that time?). Can you please take my word on this? Just this once?

Yes, for sure. It's just that a couple of posts and PM's don't make a "user base". Not even 100 posts of forum users make a user base. The majority of the thousands of users of your products don't live on forums either. I would assume even the least are regular visitors of internet forums.

Ah yes, scratch scratch, it is good etiquette to wait until the whole user base requests a feature before it should be considered.

[fluffy_little_something]

My statement was directed towards Hive's user interface concept, not its visual representation. Had you read the whole thread since it was resurrected the other day you'd know that it was already established that I didn't find the looks that great either. But I guess you conveniently omitted that.

What gui concept? The only unusual thing about the gui is the possibility of dragging and dropping modulations. Other than that the gui concept seems pretty straightforward to me, not much different from Sylenth1's.

It is a pretty capable feature set fit into a mostly one page design. You have a tab to switch between arp and fx and a tab for second page of the matrix (which could be done away with by getting rid of the extraneous spaceship visuals). You can see all osc's, lfo's, filters and envelopes at once. There is the drag-n-drop modulation which works especially well because all the modules are visible at once. The mod matrix with the second modulator. You can even drag-n-drop to other mod slots and to FX parameters. Module copy/paste and presets. Locking of left and right side but still able to edit independently at the same time.

I don't care for the visual look of Hive and have said so from day one, but the workflow functionality is exceptional. Easiest synth I have used with any sort of complexity. This ends up being a powerful feature in itself.

Yes, the modulation feature was convenient.
The link feature, well, didn't like it that much.
At first glance having everything on one page is fine, but when you use mostly only one layer anyway, that advantage goes away. I actually prefer the 2-page concept of Sylenth1, with the more elaborate osc sections instead.

[chk071]

Could you link perhaps to the posts of "their users"

I'd have to search for them. It was probably a year ago, around the time they announced V3. There were even two or three people who wrote emails to us, suggesting to approach Lennar (or was it a Reuben at that time?). Can you please take my word on this? Just this once?

Yes, for sure. It's just that a couple of posts and PM's don't make a "user base". Not even 100 posts of forum users make a user base. The majority of the thousands of users of your products don't live on forums either. I would assume even the least are regular visitors of internet forums.

Ah yes, scratch scratch, it is good etiquette to wait until the whole user base requests a feature before it should be considered.

Don't you think that should rather be the consideration of the respective developer, than yours?

[Urs]

Don't you think that should rather be the consideration of the respective developer, than yours?

Can we please argue on the base of common sense?

But yes, it was completely up to them not to follow their user's advice in this case. I'm not complaining about that. I hope they found a good alternative.

[Robmobius]

No, of course not. But there are certain common aspects of good gui's...

Well, you brought up faux hardware. Sure, U-he have plenty of that and it's lovely.

But how is it relevant to HIVE?

[chk071]

Don't you think that should rather be the consideration of the respective developer, than yours?

Can we please argue on the base of common sense?

But yes, it was completely up to them not to follow their user's advice in this case. I'm not complaining about that. I hope they found a good alternative.

So, if i'd snip with a finger now, would you implement feature XY in your software, which i'm already suggesting since years? Or would you decide on a base of your own vision of what your software should look like, and decide whether my idea fits into your concept? I don't know why you are arguing on a base where you think you can be 100% sure what their user base wants. And why you're thinking your vision should be coextensive with Lennardigital's vision.

[jsp1979]

Where are the examples of Sylenth1 presets that can't be reproduced in Hive?

Provide some examples of a patch that Hive can't do and see if someone can match it in Hive.

Isn't that what this thread should be about? It'd be interesting to have a blind sound test when it's completed.

[chk071]

Where are the examples of Sylenth1 presets that can't be reproduced in Hive?

Provide some examples of a patch that Hive can't do and see if someone can match it in Hive.

You know what's the problem with that kind of approach? Someone will provide sound examples, which in his eyes match 99,9% what he tried to reproduce. And someone else will say "Hey, but that's not close enough!", and the person who did those examples will shrug, and argue that it's close enough for him. The other issue will be that someone who usually produced 80ies music for his bedroom will try to reproduce that uber-hyper supersaw someone else posted, which was reproduced from "insert-random-EDM-superhit-here", and will have no idea what it actually takes to create a good supersaw. In fact, that is all irrelevant anyway, because the personal perception will be pretty subjective, and in the end, we will be arguing about taste. BUT, if you're into a certain genre, then your taste will most probably match the taste of other people doing, or liking the music, hence it will at least be rougly perceived in the same way. And then, popularity of the respective synth will decide. Where is Hive in the EDM scene? Where? I don't see it. In fact, i rather see it propagated here, mostly by people who're not even into that kind of music. In fact, i see that other synth i generally like to propagate here too, more and more taking over the likes of Sylenth1. So, if you really want to see a Sylenth1 killer, it's time to look elsewhere. IMO. YMMV. Maybe you're not even into EDM, or trying to make that kind of music with Hive. Absolutely ok and fair enough. But, let's face that it has been marketed for that genre, and producers who do that kind of music.

And, Urs, i don't mean no offense towards you, but you don't seem to be very receptive when talking about potential downsides people perceive in u-he's products, otherwise you'd have a more open ear to what people think about Hive, ESPECIALLY when they compare it to Sylenth1, which, obviously, was kind of an orientation point in Hive's development. I know there's loads of people which praise u-he synths to the skies, and i like many of them too, but, frankly, if there's mostly YEAH-sayers (at least here), then the NAY-sayers might be always perceived as being wrong. Just because the YEAH-sayers seem so prominently represented, or shouting louder.

[fluffy_little_something]

No, of course not. But there are certain common aspects of good gui's...

Well, you brought up faux hardware. Sure, U-he have plenty of that and it's lovely.

But how is it relevant to HIVE?

Yes. While of course not every plugin gui has to emulate hardware, I think it would have been better in the case of Hive. Virtual synthesizers are virtual editions of devices, whether those really exist in hardware or not. I think Hive would appeal more if it had a Sylenth1-like gui. The gui is important to many people. Sylenth1 simply looks more solid and robust than Hive, and people might apply that to the sound as well, even if there is nothing to it. Not sure about this specific case. I do think Hive sounds different, the stereo panorama sounded different to me, which might have to do with the osc setup (no pan knob for subs for instance). Detuning also seemed different.

[Urs]

Don't you think that should rather be the consideration of the respective developer, than yours?

Can we please argue on the base of common sense?

But yes, it was completely up to them not to follow their user's advice in this case. I'm not complaining about that. I hope they found a good alternative.

So, if i'd snip with a finger now, would you implement feature XY in your software, which i'm already suggesting since years? Or would you decide on a base of your own vision of what your software should look like, and decide whether my idea fits into your concept? I don't know why you are arguing on a base where you think you can be 100% sure what their user base wants. And why you're thinking your vision should be coextensive with Lennardigital's vision.

You're mixing a few things up:

First: It's certainly up to each developer as to what feature request from single or multiple users he takes on. The reasons to do so or not to do so may vary.

Second: Obviously some customers of Lennar (including myself) were concerned, that, given past experience, the new Sylenth was going to be cracked as easily as the previous one. They had hoped that, if stronger copy protection was deployed quickly, progress was going to pick up pace in order to safe or leverage their investment. Given the alternatives, such as dongle based protection, some people suggested to deploy my advice, since it had the reputation of being very helpful in the respect. They hoped that, if the copy protection issue was put aside swiftly, they'd receive a better product in shorter time. What then happened is completely beyond my knowledge, other than that my advice wasn't valued, which is totally okay. But still I hope they found a good solution.

Can you see that one is different from the other? One is a general case, the other is a particular one.

It's like, a shirt is a piece of clothing, but not each piece of clothing is a shirt.

I just hope that wasn't too patronizing again.

[Cinebient]

Uhh...what's going on here?
Well, Sylenth for iPad would be nice.....and copy protected at it's best
I used booth and liked neither really but Hive a bit more.
Would buy both as multi-touch apps.
Oh, what was the topic?
Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?
Nope!
The world still rotate....

[fluffy_little_something]

The new protection on Sylenth1 seems to be ok. I remember when I sold Sylenth1 I uninstalled it, yet I got a mail from them saying they could not transfer it because it was still active on my computer. They said I should install it again, then deactivate it, and then uninstall it again