Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

[pdxindy]

Also, there are people who bought tons of preset packs for Sylenth1, you have to come with something more to convince them to give up on it.

There are even more people who downloaded them for free... along with Sylenth.

But if v3 is not cracked, then its days are numbered...

Good Copy Protection is the true Sylenth killer

So. has U-he registered an increase in sales since v3 of Sylenth1 was introduced? Then again, since there were hardly any improvements in the synth as such, maybe pirates don't care about v3, anyway.

Exactly, they would all keep using the old version (assuming the new one wasn't cracked which I have no idea about)

Compared to some years back, Sylenth is talked about much less. Spire, Serum and Hive have all bit into its popularity. And yes, I predict good copy protection (assuming it has it now) will kill it.

[chk071]

I'd rather think its lack of features, and bang for the buck will kill it. It's not 2007 anymore.

[Winstontaneous]

I wished there were people who don't like Hive but want to make it work for them. Unfortunately I mostly see people that are either very happy or not interested.

FWIW, I bought Hive during the intro period and didn't quite click with it. In the time since, it's become my most used synth plug-in due to ease of use, sound and reasonable CPU usage. I think Howard Scarr's presets are what hooked me.

To my ears, supersaw is the most wretchedly annoying sound in synthesis history (aside from all the cheesy sounds Chick Corea has pulled from hardware synths over the decades) so I don't care about that at all.

[Nielzie]

Sylenth1 is really nice but by now it's been around so long that it's absolutely time for a new really enhanced and overhauled Sylenth2 v1 or something like that. I really hope Lennard is working on something new along these lines

And without the weird new copy protection please!

[aumordia]

In 5 years Sylenth1 will be 15 years old, then it won't be out of date, but "vintage."

Whether you like it or not -- and clearly a lot of people don't -- Sylenth1 is a simple, elegant classic. By my estimate, it's on it's way to occupying the same niche in the soft synth market that something like the minimoog occupies in the hard synth market: legendary status, the reference, the standard.

The DX7 didn't kill the Minimoog, and I don't think Hive (or whatever) is likely to kill Sylenth1 either. Now, could Sylenth1 commit suicide? That remains to be seen

[kurodo]

In 5 years Sylenth1 will be 15 years old, then it won't be out of date, but "vintage."

Whether you like it or not -- and clearly a lot of people don't -- Sylenth1 is a simple, elegant classic. By my estimate, it's on it's way to occupying the same niche in the soft synth market that something like the minimoog occupies in the hard synth market: legendary status, the reference, the standard.

The DX7 didn't kill the Minimoog, and I don't think Hive (or whatever) is likely to kill Sylenth1 either. Now, could Sylenth1 commit suicide? That remains to be seen

+1
That is pretty much how I see it.
Sylenth is a true classic, well ahead of its time.

[Urs]

Why hasn't Hive commercially supplanted Sylenth1?

Who says it hasn't?

Isn't that the whole point? - I think Hive is extremely successful commercially, but because of Sylenth' omnipresence of 8 or so years head start (and maybe unprecedented piracy) people always automatically seem to presume that Hive isn't as successful. Which in turn is often attributed to "people simply don't like the sound of Hive as much as the one of Silenth". Which keeps me in these threads to offer alternative explanations.

[Kumi_27]

I think piracy greatly contributed to the popularity of many products. Some good product, some bad - but "used by professionals".
Sylenth1 is no exception - it's good and it really is "de-facto-free-synth", up to version 2 I believe.
Quick search through the net and one can download it from several servers, torrents or whatever.
The newest one probably will be cracked too because it's still a very popular plugin.
Maybe the crackers "by the way" will remove the HyperV incompatibility too, because it annoys many legit users
Or all these people will just continue to use the v2, because it still works.
I've read the cracker's note for Synthmaster, for example. Just out of curiosity (I have my own SM).
He was praising the dev for the security code - but cracked the synth anyway. It's a challenge for them, like the mountain to climb.

[chk071]

I've read the cracker's note for Synthmaster, for example. Just out of curiosity (I have my own SM).
He was praising the dev for the security code - but cracked the synth anyway. It's a challenge for them, like the mountain to climb.

Yeah, that seems to be the main motivation for most of them. Just hipster stuff. Even read on one site that they will refrain from having cracked Serum versions on their site, on the one hand because Steve Duda is obviously pretty fast to have them removed, on the other hand because Steve is considered to be a "good guy" for the cracker scene, due to his company ethics. Insane if you think about it, crackers and warez people judging about the ethics of a company (reminds me of that Tone2 thing with Team AiR (i think)). Crazy times we're living in.

[fluffy_little_something]

Why is it so difficult to get such sites removed from search engines? I mean, those sites are out there for everyone to visit, they are not on the dark net. Maybe we need a reward program for people reporting such sites.

[Astralp]

Why is it so difficult to get such sites removed from search engines? I mean, those sites are out there for everyone to visit, they are not on the dark net. Maybe we need a reward program for people reporting such sites.

It's the unfortunate price of freedom, once that degrades you end up with the censored internet/advertising platform that companies like AT&T, Compuserve AOL etc.. have been fighting to have in place since the 90s. I agree though, it's currently far too difficult to get stuff removed, I don't bother trying these days I just don't think about it.

[Dasheesh]

I think piracy greatly contributed to the popularity of many products. Some good product, some bad - but "used by professionals".
Sylenth1 is no exception - it's good and it really is "de-facto-free-synth", up to version 2 I believe.
Quick search through the net and one can download it from several servers, torrents or whatever.
The newest one probably will be cracked too because it's still a very popular plugin.
Maybe the crackers "by the way" will remove the HyperV incompatibility too, because it annoys many legit users
Or all these people will just continue to use the v2, because it still works.
I've read the cracker's note for Synthmaster, for example. Just out of curiosity (I have my own SM).
He was praising the dev for the security code - but cracked the synth anyway. It's a challenge for them, like the mountain to climb.

From what I've seen Spire is giving it a run for it's money. Why? Reveal has done everything the crackers say they consider to be a "GOOD DEVELOPER". Spire doesn't use anything but a serial from what I know. The crackheads will crack anything... freeware, demo ware, you name it. why? Because they want the attention man. They are kids brother. They want the attention. They crave the attention. They have to have it. It's their drug. They use it to make their sequenced edm da da da dadadaaaa... because people pay attention to them. Because they have nothing else to get them attention in life. because they are lonely.

[aumordia]

Once upon a time, there were (VSTi) synths. These Synths could be cracked and pirated and endorsed by celebrities, and they all duked it out in the market place.

Then, in 2006, a new synth appeared: Sylenth1. It would go on to become one of the most popular softsynths of all time -- even though it was 32bit only and had a fugly Synthedit GUI for ages.

A decade later, it has yet to be supplanted. Yet some people who sell software for a living (like I do) and should know better insist that it's because of piracy. Some people also insist it's the endorsements that drove its success, despite the fact that its webpage doesn't exactly prominently feature said endorsements -- certainly nothing when compared to the competition.

Nobody, so far, has even tried to engage with the idea that the key to Sylenth1's success is its carefully restricted feature set. Perhaps this is anathema to the KVR crowd, but it's what ultimately drove me to buy it. And if anything, I'm going against the grain. I don't listen to "EDM," and I make soundtrack type music. My forum of choice is actually VI Control, where Sylenth1 is a nullity and everybody seems to use Kontakt and Omnisphere or Zebra. And here on KVR, the amount of flack Sylenth1 catches is astounding. So I was certain I would buy something other than Sylenth1, but I tried it on a whim, and I can't seem to shake it.

I just spent an hour messing along with Retrologue 2 in my new Cubase Pro install. It sounds great, is feature rich, and it's included free, so I thought I might see if I can sell off Sylenth1 and just use Retrologue instead. And yet, I can't bring myself to do it. Retrologue has way more functionality, and yet it doesn't feel as tight and polished as Sylenth1. There are too many wrong turns and dead ends. It's more tweakable, but that tweakability comes at the expense of working quickly and fluidly. For one example, the included reverb is much more powerful, but whereas I can just flick on Sylenth1's reverb and be good to go, I seem to be consistently required to tweak Retrologue 2's reverb settings in order to make things work. Ditto the XOR and Cross oscillator mod options it includes: these are things that Retrologue offers over and above what Sylenth1 has, and yet, the way they're implemented, I feel like I can't just use them, I have to fuss with them.

With Sylenth1, I feel like I could be a dumb monkey banging on my keyboard and I'll get a cool sound -- in fact, in the course of the aforementioned testing, I unintentionally created two cool new patches. Retrologue 2 didn't give me that feeling. It said "you have to be a smart monkey and click wisely." Well, I have neither the time nor the inclination to become a smart monkey. My ego demands good sounds with minimum effort, and I don't want to use presets. Sylenth1 just seems to crush Retrologue 2 in this regard.

Now, I provided the foregoing scenario to hopefully un-rustle some jimmies here. I'm talking about Retrologue 2, and nobody gets uppity about that. With a little luck, my critique can be evaluated thoughtfully, rather than rejected emotionally.

That said, if you really, truly want to understand the point I'm making about Sylenth1 vs Hive, take my above criticisms of Retrologue 2 and apply them to Hive. This is where people seem to lose their mind, but hear me out. Look at my post count. It's never going to be in the thousands. I'm never going to be a synth l0rd. I don't want to be. I also have enough pride to not want to use presets. Sylenth1 therefore appeals to me like nothing else can.

Perhaps I've never spelled this out explicitly, but: I actually want to be a U-he customer. I want to like Hive. I have no idea when Lennar is just going to drop off the face of the earth entirely and then my presets won't amount to a hill of beans. I also really respect the transparency and engagement of Urs and team. Not to mention that everyone in the composing/soundtrack world raves about U-he's stuff, and hey, I want to be one of the cool kids too.

Urs, you said you wanted to hear from somebody who wants to like Hive, but doesn't. Well, I'm that somebody! The thing is, what I don't like about Hive isn't the looks or the sound -- it's the "feel," the ergonomics. Sylenth makes me feel like I can make great sounds even though I'm a dumb monkey -- I can push any button and pull any lever and I'll get good results. Hive makes it possible to make great sounds, but I have to be careful. I don't want to have to be careful!

I'm sure this sounds like complete gobbledy gook, but I'd be more inclined to buy Hive if you removed features. For instance, get rid of the three modes, make it just one really fast mode (the high-quality mode is called "Diva" you might have heard of it). You're the expert, I'm not -- please decide for me. I could provide a list of things like that if it wouldn't fall on deaf ears, but I don't want to piss away an effort post if the response I'm going to get is just "lol no dude the fact that other people pirate Sylenth1 and use presets and obsess over minute differences in supersaws, that's why you like Sylenth1."

A final point: this all started with me switching to Cubase on a Mac after being a long time FL Studio user. For years, I used Sytrus as my go-to synth. To be blunt, it's ugly, clunky, fiddly, techie -- and it's also what I'm used to. So when I tried Sylenth1 for the first time, I was blown away -- good sounds just fell out of my fingertips. I was not used to that. And nothing else has been able to replicate that, although I wish Hive would. But Sylenth1 is what I imagine you'd get if Steve Jobs designed a synth, and so far, nobody else seems interesting in making the same sort of design accomplishment.

Urs, if you made this kind of synth, I would buy it. Maybe it needs to be another, even simpler synth called Apiary or whatever, but that's what it all boils down to for me, your modal Sylenth1 owner and potential Hive customer.

[pdxindy]

A final point: this all started with me switching to Cubase on a Mac after being a long time FL Studio user. For years, I used Sytrus as my go-to synth. To be blunt, it's ugly, clunky, fiddly, techie -- and it's also what I'm used to. So when I tried Sylenth1 for the first time, I was blown away -- good sounds just fell out of my fingertips. I was not used to that. And nothing else has been able to replicate that, although I wish Hive would. But Sylenth1 is what I imagine you'd get if Steve Jobs designed a synth, and so far, nobody else seems interesting in making the same sort of design accomplishment.

Does Element ft that?

Also, Sylenth is no longer the darling synth one hears about... Now it is Spire and also Serum that get talked about more than Sylenth. At least with Sylenth, the various soundsets had some pleasing tones in them... usually not to my taste, but regularly something pleasing there nonetheless. Every Spire soundset is awful... not the sound quality just the type of sounds which come from a style of music that is like fingernails on the chalkboard to me. Everything is so hard and aggressive now, with no emotional feeling at all.

I've always found Sylenth too limited in its sound palette, but it does have some feeling to it. I like it... just never enough to buy it.

I've thought for some years that Sylenth has some kind of built in limiting. Sylenth seems to resist clipping... certainly more than the usual softsynths. Some hardware synths are like that too. This is one of the reasons (in my observation) that it feels easy to make sounds.

I never compared Sylenth and Hive in this regard, but I did compare Sylenth and Zebra. In Zebra, with a similar setup (at that time which is now like 5 years ago) it was easier to make Zebra clip by turning up an Osc's volume (for example).

[Frantz]

I'm sure this sounds like complete gobbledy gook, but I'd be more inclined to buy Hive if you removed features. For instance, get rid of the three modes, make it just one really fast mode (the high-quality mode is called "Diva" you might have heard of it). You're the expert, I'm not -- please decide for me.

This is a great post and perfectly captures why I bought one u-he product, Diva, and barely use it. Diva is like synth nerd Lego. It's fiddly and complicated with too many options. I am focused on writing songs so I want an instrument where the designer has limited the choices and optimized the workflow to yield musical results quickly. I haven't spent much time with Hive but what aumordia wrote coincides with my experience with Diva.