Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

[ImNotDedYet]

Oh man who died on a cross for being improperly prosecuted.

Most everyone's computer is different. Not only that, the computer configurations are different. Not only that, DAWs are different. And not only that, but a DAWs configuration could be different. Oh yeah, I didn't mention the effect of an audio interface's settings on potential performance either.

So just download the demo and compare it sound-wise and CPU-wise on your damn system so everyone can shut up about it all. What your results are on your system are likely to be different than mine. Once the sound comparisons are done, you can make the decision yourself if the differences in sound are worth or no worth the CPU on the preferred VST.

[fluffy_little_something]

So the clipped envelope gives the ear more time to dwell on that same level?
Is it (supposed to be) on both envelopes?

[pdxindy]

It has always annoyed me that Diva was arbitrarily limited to 16 voices when my computer could handle more. With a sound of 2 stacked voices, then it is only 8 and with pads it is easy to hear the voice stealing. It is a pain to have to use 2 instances with the same preset and split the midi between them.

Why oh why make Legend only 4 voice polyphony?? Especially as Ingo pointed out it is more CPU efficient with polyphony? That would be endlessly annoying

[chk071]

It has always annoyed me that Diva was arbitrarily limited to 16 voices when my computer could handle more. With a sound of 2 stacked voices, then it is only 8 and with pads it is easy to hear the voice stealing. It is a pain to have to use 2 instances with the same preset and split the midi between them.

Why oh why make Legend only 4 voice polyphony?? Especially as Ingo pointed out it is more CPU efficient with polyphony? That would be endlessly annoying

The way i understood it, it's a design decision, to make Legend as performant as it is.

See Richard's statement here: https://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p283740

The key idea in The Legend is to process large parts of the voices, in particular the CPU-demanding VCF and VCA, entirely in parallel using SSE. Since SSE does 4 things in parallel, this means 4 voices poly or unison can be computed in parallel. Note that this is a different concept from developers using SSE to speed up this or that portion of the code. What we do is to run just one large circuit simulation, which then returns the outputs of 4 voices simultaneously. This all happens on a single CPU core, so you fully benefit from your other cores still (e.g. if you run many instances of The Legend).

We could double the voices using AVX to 8, but not everyone has a processor with AVX at this point, and it is not supported in RE just yet.

Richard

[Mutant]

I just checked if The Legend has the famous Minimoog "snappy/punchy" clipped envelope shape.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but the answer is: Nope.

Here i what i am talking about:
http://synthesizers.com/egpunch.html

How did you measure it, and what was your punchy reference?

Ive made loads of perc sounds so far, and the envs are good here.

Not my site, not my picture.
It is a well known Minimoog semi-unique feature.

[Elektronisch]

I just believe that this Diva is a unusual cpu hog is a fallacy
Rsp

As long as you only compare monophonic patches it is indeed no real problem and monophonic patches were always playable with Diva, even in Divine mode.
If you compare polyphonic patches and also multiple instances of those you sooner or later should notice huge differences betwen Diva and The Legend (especially at higher quality modes in Diva beyond "fast" quality).

Anyway with monophonic patches that use a longer release time Diva at "Fast" quality is close in CPU use to The Legend. At highest quality it could use almost the double amount of The Legend, even with multicore is on in Diva.

You must be doing something wrong. Im playing chord sequence of each chord containing 4 notes same type patch:

Diva - Devine Quality - Polyphonic Mode - Multicore On - 8%
The Legend - 8%

Diva


The Legend

[pdxindy]

It has always annoyed me that Diva was arbitrarily limited to 16 voices when my computer could handle more. With a sound of 2 stacked voices, then it is only 8 and with pads it is easy to hear the voice stealing. It is a pain to have to use 2 instances with the same preset and split the midi between them.

Why oh why make Legend only 4 voice polyphony?? Especially as Ingo pointed out it is more CPU efficient with polyphony? That would be endlessly annoying

The way i understood it, it's a design decision, to make Legend as performant as it is.

See Richard's statement here: https://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p283740

The key idea in The Legend is to process large parts of the voices, in particular the CPU-demanding VCF and VCA, entirely in parallel using SSE. Since SSE does 4 things in parallel, this means 4 voices poly or unison can be computed in parallel. Note that this is a different concept from developers using SSE to speed up this or that portion of the code. What we do is to run just one large circuit simulation, which then returns the outputs of 4 voices simultaneously. This all happens on a single CPU core, so you fully benefit from your other cores still (e.g. if you run many instances of The Legend).

We could double the voices using AVX to 8, but not everyone has a processor with AVX at this point, and it is not supported in RE just yet.

Richard

So, with the amount of cpu it is using, you could run two such simulations for 8 voices... or 3 for 12 voices, etc. The computer can handle it. 4 voice limit is so tiny and basically arbitrary!

Also, I have a question... can you adjust unison parameters per voice in Legend?

[chk071]

It has always annoyed me that Diva was arbitrarily limited to 16 voices when my computer could handle more. With a sound of 2 stacked voices, then it is only 8 and with pads it is easy to hear the voice stealing. It is a pain to have to use 2 instances with the same preset and split the midi between them.

Why oh why make Legend only 4 voice polyphony?? Especially as Ingo pointed out it is more CPU efficient with polyphony? That would be endlessly annoying

The way i understood it, it's a design decision, to make Legend as performant as it is.

See Richard's statement here: https://www.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p283740

The key idea in The Legend is to process large parts of the voices, in particular the CPU-demanding VCF and VCA, entirely in parallel using SSE. Since SSE does 4 things in parallel, this means 4 voices poly or unison can be computed in parallel. Note that this is a different concept from developers using SSE to speed up this or that portion of the code. What we do is to run just one large circuit simulation, which then returns the outputs of 4 voices simultaneously. This all happens on a single CPU core, so you fully benefit from your other cores still (e.g. if you run many instances of The Legend).

We could double the voices using AVX to 8, but not everyone has a processor with AVX at this point, and it is not supported in RE just yet.

Richard

So, with the amount of cpu it is using, you could run two such simulations for 8 voices... or 3 for 12 voices, etc. The computer can handle it.

Well, no. Not the way i understood it.

The key idea in The Legend is to process large parts of the voices, in particular the CPU-demanding VCF and VCA, entirely in parallel using SSE. Since SSE does 4 things in parallel, this means 4 voices poly or unison can be computed in parallel.

Running multiple instances is another thing.

[fluffy_little_something]

For an emulation of a monophonic synth efficient 4-voice polyphony is not that bad at all
In my view this synth is excellent for basses and leads, for pads and stuff like that there are certainly better choices out there, that don't need to have such good bass.

[Yorrrrrr]

For basses and leads, I've got The Legend; for pads and everything else I can imagine, I've got DUNE 2. Killer synths Synapse have created. I hope the things Synapse have learned in the process of making this beauty can be applied in some way to DUNE 3 or even an update to DUNE 2.

[chk071]

I hope the things Synapse have learned in the process of making this beauty can be applied in some way to DUNE 3 or even an update to DUNE 2.

That's what i'm hoping for, actually expecting, too. Even though the kind of detail displayed here surely isn't necessary, or will make it in a more featured synth anyway, because, with a lot of voices and unison, CPU consumption will always be a thing of course. Still, IMO, filter behavior, and envelopes are already a massive improvement to Dune 2 too, so, will be cool to see what the feature holds.

[AnX]

I just checked if The Legend has the famous Minimoog "snappy/punchy" clipped envelope shape.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but the answer is: Nope.

Here i what i am talking about:
http://synthesizers.com/egpunch.html

How did you measure it, and what was your punchy reference?

Ive made loads of perc sounds so far, and the envs are good here.

Not my site, not my picture.
It is a well known Minimoog semi-unique feature.

But YOU said legend doesnt have them... how did you get to that conclusion?

[ZeePok]

 
My Goodness, what a p*ssing contest! .

I've never played a Minimoog so no comment about that.


I tried the demo and found:

- no velocity sens. on volume

- no sustain pedal support (!)

- no patch initialisation functionality (and no Init patch in Demo)

- demo limitations too severe (30 days only AND crippled)


So, for me, this VSTi is too limited in what it does (and therefore too expensive for my disability allowance income).

No Reason to buy this ... (pun intended )

BTW: (troll warning! ) If this were a 'real' Minimoog imitation it wouldn't have built-in patches (or save/load functionality) .

[fluffy_little_something]

Well, Minimoog enthusiasts can probably live with such "limitations".

I know hardly any demo versions without any limitations. There is always something to piss the tester off, that is the whole point I suppose

[chk071]

 
My Goodness, what a p*ssing contest! .

If some people wouldn't be so sensitive to feel personally insulted, whenever there is something to criticize, then this could really turn into a healthy discussion about the pro's and cons of this thing. The funny thing is, it's usually not the dev who feels insulted by every small niggle people might have, but instead some diehard company fanatics. Don't quite get it.