Repro-1 (out now)

[beely]

It is nice for people sharing presets that any Diva or Zebra preset can be shared with any user of that synth... with a bunch of paid modules, you would never know what preset might work.

Sure, but there are various ways of handling that, if it's a direction the designer chooses to go in.

For example, it's possible to share sysex patches of hardware synths, which refer to PCM waveforms on cards/cartridges that the user may not have. In this the simplest case, the patches just don't sound right.

Better that patch has some indication, note or filename reference where a particular optional resource is necessary. Better still the synth itself knows that a patch requires a resource a user doesn't have installed, and either visually shows a notification of this (eg, the patch is shown in a different colour, or makes the patch not loadable, or whatever.).

Other ways too, it's not insurmoutable, like I say *if* Urs wants to go down that avenue (I'm not sure he does, but these decisions can get complex when they affect multiple products, existing and new users etc)

[itoa]

Nice!

Urs,

This filter seems very linear, except resonance feedback path. I see no intermodulation in the spectrum and response is very "correct".
This is not bad, but is it how original Pro One filter behaves?

[Urs]

Nice!

Urs,

This filter seems very linear, except resonance feedback path. I see no intermodulation in the spectrum and response is very "correct".
This is not bad, but is it how original Pro One filter behaves?

Not like that. It's actually quite interesting because the distortion is frequency dependent. I've never seen anything like it before. But after some hints from Mystran and giving the Doug Curtis patents another go, we cracked it.

The filter in the final version will exhibit some nice distortion characteristics. Still nothing too fancy but certainly something I haven't heard in software before.

[Garrincha]

Should we decide to bundle a Prophet-5 emu in future,

I know you are probably joking, but a proper Prophet-5 rev. 1 or 2 emu is something that really needs to be done because there ain't any. The NI Pro-V ist long gone (and wasn't that good anyway) and Arturias Prophets are pathetic (both of them).

I'd prefer OSC, Filter and Envelope modules in Diva (as I like the poly and unison options in that system) but I'd take a complete emulation as well.

[Urs]

Should we decide to bundle a Prophet-5 emu in future,

I know you are probably joking, but a proper Prophet-5 rev. 1 or 2 emu is something that really needs to be done because there ain't any. The NI Pro-V ist long gone (and wasn't that good anyway) and Arturias Prophets are pathetic (both of them).

I'd prefer OSC, Filter and Envelope modules in Diva (as I like the poly and unison options in that system) but I'd take a complete emulation as well.

I'm pretty sure we'll do one of the two, but at the moment Repro-1 is all I can think about.

[Garrincha]

I'm pretty sure we'll do one of the two, but at the moment Repro-1 is all I can think about.

Wish you all the best for the release!

...and keep my fingers crossed for a "real" Prophet. The best P5 emulator IMHO was always the Nord Lead II. I stopped missing my Nord Modular (on which I used a Nord Lead patch for those kind of sounds) only after you released Diva. I haven't looked back with the exception of that Prophetish vibe the OSCs, Filters and also the envelopes had on the Nord Lead. I believe Hans had a P5 and a MKS80 after which he modeled the thing.

So I'm all for a P5 be it in Diva or a self contained model.

And while you are at it: The Prophet VS would be a great addition too. That's another classic that got slaughtered by Arturia.

[fmr]

And while you are at it: The Prophet VS would be a great addition too. That's another classic that got slaughtered by Arturia.

Oh really? That bad, huh? What do you know about the subject? Did you perform some A/B tests to prove your disgust? Have something to share that the rest of us don't know? Or are you anohter of those basher morons that like to post here in KVR?

[Garrincha]

Oh really? That bad, huh? What do you know about the subject? Did you perform some A/B tests to prove your disgust? Have something to share that the rest of us don't know? Or are you anohter of those basher morons that like to post here in KVR?

Do they still have constant phase oscs? Not that it matters for a Prophet VS but it does for analog modelling. Do their envelopes still start at zero when triggered before the end of the release phase? That's not how an analog envelope works.

As for the VS: There was a very good (and close to my ears) emulation by the original developer. That thing was called Vector Sector and though the filter wasn't on par with what people like Urs are doing today, it was pretty decent. The digital code however was spot on because it was ported over from the original firmware. I used to have a VS back then when Vector Sector was released and I thought it was close enough for me to sell the VS. I didn't use the analog filters on that thing too much anyway, as I had a Jupiter-6 and a Oberheim Matrix for those sounds, so I thought the digital sounds were so close, I didn't need the VS anymore. The Arturia VS isn't even in the same ballpark.

Modelling analog synths has come a long way and with people like Urs we are way past the point where it does matter if it's a real analog or a VA. That's not the case with most of the Arturia stuff though.

[Arrested Developer]

And while you are at it: The Prophet VS would be a great addition too. That's another classic that got slaughtered by Arturia.

Oh really? That bad, huh? What do you know about the subject? Did you perform some A/B tests to prove your disgust? Have something to share that the rest of us don't know? Or are you anohter of those basher morons that like to post here in KVR?

Calm down.
I've worked for years with the Prophet VS (the real one) and i come to the same conclusion as Garrincha.
In fact, the prophet vs has a very unique sound.
Zebra, in some situations can sound similar.
The Arturias may be useful on their own, but not in the sense of an "emulation".

[Vectorman]

Ditto on the Arturia version of the VS. The real thing has fairly prominent transposition artifacts that play quite a bit into its sonic character, especially with sounds like crunchy, aggressive basses (the same is true of the PPG Waves). As is the case with the Korg Wavestation (which of course also has the VS waveforms), the Arturia plugin sounds a lot cleaner so it sounds VS-esque but misses a fair bit of the character. At that point, you may as well use the Prophet VS waveforms in Zebra or Dune2 or Serum, where you have deeper architectures that can do a lot more with that raw material.

[beely]

Vector Sector was a really nice plugin... shame it never made the PPC-> Intel transition (on the Mac).

[Garrincha]

Vector Sector was a really nice plugin... shame it never made the PPC-> Intel transition (on the Mac).

I used it until recently when I upgraded to Windows 10. It used to work with jbridge in Cubase 8 and Windows 8, but not in Windows 10 and Cubase 8.5 over here - for whatever reason. I always wanted to look into that issue whenever I find the time to do so.

The plugin and the company disappeared roughly around the time the Arturia Prophets arrived. I was always curious if there was a hidden agenda in that story...

I doubt however that Urs will ever make a VS, because the waveforms and also maybe the whole OSC code is still under copyright. Whoever holds the rights has granted the rights for commercial use to Arturia already. So nobody else can do a true emulation.

[fmr]

Calm down.
I've worked for years with the Prophet VS (the real one) and i come to the same conclusion as Garrincha.
In fact, the prophet vs has a very unique sound. Zebra, in some situations can sound similar.
The Arturias may be useful on their own, but not in the sense of an "emulation".

Tha Arturia Prophet-V goes way beyond both the Prophet-5 and the Prophet-VS, as it can combine the two to make hybrid patches. This alone, IMO, justifies it. Besides, the two "flaws" pointed (envelopes that reset with a new attack and phase locked oscillators), are just two small details in the whole picture, and only affect an emulation is a very small degree. What's more important to me is the fact that I can pick up a patch built in the Prophet-5 and/or the Prophet-VS and reproduce it in the Arturia Prophet-V. For me, an emulation is, first and before anything else, this. I saw many people taking down the NI Pro-5 back then, but now I see it being praised... go figure.

The Juno-60, the JX-3P/MKS-30 and the JX-10/MKS-70 (I have all of them), for example, have DCOs (phase locked) and they sound great. Are they less analogue because of that? Not IMO. In fact, the DCOs first appeared because phase drift was regarded as a problem (there are people for whom staying in tune is a need, not a curse). Of course, if an emulation can reproduce all the quirks of the emulated original, good. But I always welcome the option to hold off those quirks, if possible. I had my dose of problems with the REAL analogues, and I am glad to get rid of them.

Besides, if I am programming an envelope to get a "click" at the beginning of the sound, I want THAT click every time I attack a new note. Just an example.

So, see people claiming that Arturia "murders" this or that just takes me out of serious. I don't understand why people feel the need to bash something based just on small details and prejudice.

[Arrested Developer]

So, see people claiming that Arturia "murders" this or that just takes me out of serious. I don't understand why people feel the need to bash something based just on small details and prejudice.

I guess we simply disagree.
When i used the Prophet VS, it was about the vibe of that synth.
I dont care about the exact sounds, i care about that "smokey" character.
It's what i'm interested in.
Therefore it's totally essential for me (and obviously lots of other users).
It's not about bashing, it's about priorities.

Mentioning DCOs in this context is pointless,
and another thing:

You should not accuse other persons for "bashing" something, if they come
to different conclusions as you do. There's freedom of liking and of disliking.

[fmr]

You should not accuse other persons for "bashing" something, if they come
to different conclusions as you do. There's freedom of liking and of disliking.

Yes, liking or disliking is something anyone is entitled to. But then one should say "I don't like it, and IMO they did not do a good job" and not "they murder anything they emulate" or something similar. That is a language I don't think is simply expressioning a dislike, it is much more hyperbolic and drastic, and should be kept for something that is supported with facts, not opinions, and have to have much stronger reasons than "envelopes reset to zero" and "oscillators are not free running". I know this is Internet and KVR, but nevertheless...