KVR Audio

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:06 pm

Maybe somebody deep into Pianoteq could season and tweak the recent Steinway Model B they have for these pieces?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:37 pm

Recently i promised to myself to not try Pianoteq again at least until version 6 is out or if they add an outstanding new model, e.g. a Fazioli grand piano.
I had tested different versions since v3 and each of them multiple times and even with the most recent one i was dispappointed by the sound. Sound wise it did ninded improve since the last versions and they seem to be close to finally nail it but with v3 my opinion was just WTF??

There has to be a significant improvement in terms of sound to reconsider it replacing the 6 pianos i just posted in those audio demos at the previous page. I do not really care if it is better playable like many Pianoteq users were stating in the past.

FWIW i am not sure if i would have bought Arturia Piano V as a single product but as part of V-Collection V it was a no brainer for me anyway. For a fully modeled piano it sounds surprisingly good, also when tweaked properly, and overall the sound is more pleasing for me than the PIanoteq 5 demo. This s independent of how close it models a specific piano or not. At the demo on teh previosu page i found that the sound is somehow comparable to The Grandeur, at least in the more intimate/queit parts (while The Grandeur is slightly brighter and Piano V seems to have more low end which BTW was NOT boosted wit hteh built-in EQ).

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:22 pm

OK, I decided to give a comparative listen to the Chopin Revolutionaire (Etude Op 10 n.12). I used the demo of Pianoteq that I was wanting to try for a very long time, the Arturia Piano-V, The TYrue Pianos Atlantis (Dense) and Diamond (Classical), the XLN Concert Grand D, and the NI The Grandeur, New York and Vienna. I also found that I have an unopened package of the Garritan Authorized Steinway. Since this is now out of the market, I decied to install it, and I will give it a run later (but I'm sure this one will be top notch).

This MIDI performance of the Etude is a real time MIDI recording (and a good one, I dare to say), therefore, it's the closest thing we can have to a real piano recording. With a good piano library, and a good mastering, we can make a recording out of this (as you will see). Any piano was recorded AS IS, out of the box, without any further editing, added FX, whatever. When more than one preset is available, I chose the one that is closer to the real recording (the less processed, therefore), or the one that clearly indicates that it's aimed at a piano concert hall. There are some failed notes in the Pianoteq performance, but that is due to the demo limitations. Also, the differences in volume are from each library. I decided to leave it this way for people to realize how different each library can be in terms of standard volume and dynamics. Pianoteq is in the threshold of clipping, for example (really impressive dynamic range, and the quality indeed surprised me). Of course, in the real world, I would correct the volume of each recording to make them more or less even, but that's not the point here.

Here are the renderings, in MP3 (maximum VBR quality). Take a listen and post your coments:

Etude Op 10 n.12 Arturia Piano-V
Etude Op 10 n.12 Pianoteq
Etude Op 10 n.12 TP Atlantis
Etude Op 10 n.12 TP Diamond
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI The Grandeur
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI New York
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI Vienna
Etude Op 10 n.12 XLN St Grand

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:43 pm

fmr wrote:OK, I decided to give a comparative listen to the Chopin Revolutionaire (Etude Op 10 n.12). I used the demo of Pianoteq that I was wanting to try for a very long time, the Arturia Piano-V, The TYrue Pianos Atlantis (Dense) and Diamond (Classical), the XLN Concert Grand D, and the NI The Grandeur, New York and Vienna. I also found that I have an unopened package of the Garritan Authorized Steinway. Since this is now out of the market, I decied to install it, and I will give it a run later (but I'm sure this one will be top notch).

This MIDI performance of the Etude is a real time MIDI recording (and a good one, I dare to say), therefore, it's the closest thing we can have to a real piano recording. With a good piano library, and a good mastering, we can make a recording out of this (as you will see). Any piano was recorded AS IS, out of the box, without any further editing, added FX, whatever. When more than one preset is available, I chose the one that is closer to the real recording (the less processed, therefore), or the one that clearly indicates that it's aimed at a piano concert hall. There are some failed notes in the Pianoteq performance, but that is due to the demo limitations. Also, the differences in volume are from each library. I decided to leave it this way for people to realize how different each library can be in terms of standard volume and dynamics. Pianoteq is in the threshold of clipping, for example. Of course, in the real world, I would correct the volme of each recording to make them more or less even, but that's not the point here.

Here are the renderings, in MP3 (maximum VBR quality):

Etude Op 10 n.12 Arturia Piano-V
Etude Op 10 n.12 Pianoteq
Etude Op 10 n.12 TP Atlantis
Etude Op 10 n.12 TP Diamond
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI The Grandeur
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI New York
Etude Op 10 n.12 NI Vienna
Etude Op 10 n.12 XLN St Grand

Hi Fernando,

many thanks for those. This is also interesting as i had a demo of the Chopin Etude at my demos on the previous page too while obviously it is a differnt MIDI file. Somehow i like Beethoven more so 6 of the 10 MIDI files i used for the demos were composed by him.

For the latest update of my demos I also used 4 of the Pianos you used: Arturia Piano V, Truepianos Atlantis, XLN studio Grand and NI The Grandeur.
The preset i used in Arturia Piano V is a tweaked preset so no stock preset.

FWIW i still got a copy of the Garritan authorized Steinway Basic Edition (smallest one), will maybe add this later.

No longer really interested in Pianoteq which i tested often enough now. At least until the is a new really great piano model for it (e.g. a Fazioli...) or a new major version.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:13 pm

Ingonator wrote: No longer really interested in Pianoteq which i tested often enough now. At least until the is a new really great piano model for it (e.g. a Fazioli...) or a new major version.

Hi Ingo:
You should try the new Model B. That's the one I used in the demo. It was recommended to me, and effectively it seems to have a great sound

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:15 pm

And that Pianoteq Blüthner (Intimate preset) has a sweet, subdued sound I do like a lot. Have to get it.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:40 pm

fmr wrote:
Ingonator wrote: No longer really interested in Pianoteq which i tested often enough now. At least until the is a new really great piano model for it (e.g. a Fazioli...) or a new major version.
Hi Ingo:
You should try the new Model B. That's the one I used in the demo. It was recommended to me, and effectively it seems to have a great sound

I had tried the Pianoteq 5 Standard demo recently including the Model B. Still prefer teh other pianos i got. Time to use those properly (including some EQ rweaking) before i get another one.

BTW i just re-installed Garritan authorized Steinway Basic (got that a quite long time like TruePianos) and started rendering the audio demos.

lolilol1975 · Post by **lolilol1975** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:41 pm

Ingonator wrote:
subterfuge wrote: Great collection going on, thanks for the effort. But with hundreds of possible libraries and seeing there's only one or two (?) actual piano emulation instruments in this list, it belongs to the Sample libraries forum instead?
Arturia Piano V is pure modeling and TruePianos uses mostly modeling and small samples (i guess for the Attack part).

Interesting, because they are among the 3 that I consider listenable in your comparison, the last one being the Grandeur. The Arturia is the one I prefer for nuance; unfortunately, the left hand breaks down in the Chopin Etude, where it becomes all mud. Seems like the reverb in this plugin drowns everything.

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:46 pm

That Garritan Steinway is now part of GPO5 isn't it?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:52 pm

Ingonator wrote: BTW i just re-installed Garritan authorized Steinway Basic (got that a quite long time like TruePianos) and started rendering the audio demos.

Unfortunately, I am now stucked because of the authorization. I went there to register, and download the authorization card, but I could not finde the product, and the serial wasn't recognized. I opened a support ticket, and now I have to wait

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:52 pm

Fleer wrote:That Garritan Steinway is now part of GPO5 isn't it?

That's not the same Steinway

This one was recorded by Steinway themselves, but is no longer available.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:59 pm

Fleer wrote:That Garritan Steinway is now part of GPO5 isn't it?

Based on teh website tehre seem to be Steinway D pianos included but not sure how far they are similar to the authorized steinway (was created in direct coopertation with Steinway & Sons). The whole GPO 5 seems to have around 16 GB size for a lot of instruments while even the basic version of the authorized Steinway (the version i got here) has more than 3 GB (so the bigger version should be much more).

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:05 pm

I tried the arturia modeled one and IMHO it was horrible compared to pianoteq or turkeys or any library.

I recognize that when it comes to sound some libraries beat pianoteq but the difference isn't that big, and pianoteq plays and feels way more natural and expressive.

I have learning puano for almost 3 years, I have had some libraries and I always came back to pianoteq demo, until I finally got it and got rid of the libraries.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:44 pm

rod_zero wrote:I tried the arturia modeled one and IMHO it was horrible compared to pianoteq or turkeys or any library.

FWIW here is a screenshot of the modified Piano V preset i used for my audio demos:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 1%20IW.png

The tweaks to teh "Concert D" preset are mostly in hammer hardness, velocity curve, EQ (mostly the highs) and unison detune. Reverb wa set to off as i used an external one for teh audio demos.
Values are: Unison detune = 0.016, Hammer hardness = 0.715, EQ Hi Freq = 2900 Hz, EQ Hi Gain = +3.89 dB, velocity curve = "soft touch" preset.
Different mic setups could make a big difference too. The "Soundboard" parameter adjusts the amount of Resonance.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:38 pm

I just updated my audio demos at the previous page (= page 6) of this thread and in the OP (after the libraries/plugins list there) with demos based on the Garritan authorized Steinway Basic Edition. Now the demos include 7 pianos and 10 demos each so overall 70 audio demos.

This library is discontinued and AFAIK so far the only sample library created in direct cooperation with Steinway & Sons. Not sure but at the Model B model for Pianoteq theer seemed to be a kind of cooperation too.

A mentioend earlier here the Steinway Model D included with Garritan GPO 5 seems to be a different one.

Acoustic Grand Piano libraries/emulations: An Overview (audio demos of some pianos added)