KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:05 pm

sircuit wrote:@Manuel: As Avenger will have a big number of target controls for automation (I don't know what this request means in terms of coding) - would be possible to nest them in categories as in this example? Yes, I know there is "Touch" function but I thought it worth mentioning.

FWIW, as far as i know, the amount of automatable parameters is limited to 128 per plugin anyway, as dictated per the VST and AU specifications. Of course, still nice to have them sorted, but it's not as if Avenger offers a thousand automatable parameters now.

Soundplex · Post by **Soundplex** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:18 pm

chk071 wrote:FWIW, as far as i know, the amount of automatable parameters is limited to 128 per plugin anyway, as dictated per the VST and AU specifications. Of course, still nice to have them sorted, but it's not as if Avenger offers a thousand automatable parameters now.

AFAIK this is not true. For instance take a look at Phalanx and its automatable parameterlist. I think there are thousands

Which is quiet a mess if you ask me... I don't know why they didn't just gave the dedicated 64 free assignable automation parameters to the host. This should have been enough imo.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:21 pm

Dunno. Maybe the 128 parameters restriction is for plugins with a single output only. I doubt it though. Both Electra2 and LuSH-101 have that restriction, and it has been stated that it's a restriction of the VST and AU specifications. Maybe it is different with VST3, i don't know.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:25 pm

To make things clear, 128 parameters is MIDI interface limitation. You host might have workaround for that which allows you to control any number of parameters (Ableton does).

sircuit · Post by **sircuit** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:35 pm

chk071 wrote:FWIW, as far as i know, the amount of automatable parameters is limited to 128 per plugin anyway, as dictated per the VST and AU specifications. Of course, still nice to have them sorted, but it's not as if Avenger offers a thousand automatable parameters now.

Here you can watch Synthmaster's automation target list _ https://vimeo.com/186289102 Enjoy

msvs · Post by **msvs** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:37 pm

sircuit wrote:Can the LFO delay be set also in fractions (1/8 note, 1/32, 1/64 and so on...) - or it changes by pressing the buttons under "Rate" knob?

of course. When clicking on the Name of the LFO *delay* or the *FadeIn*, you can set it to synced mode. Forgot to show this, my bad

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:42 pm

sircuit wrote:
chk071 wrote:FWIW, as far as i know, the amount of automatable parameters is limited to 128 per plugin anyway, as dictated per the VST and AU specifications. Of course, still nice to have them sorted, but it's not as if Avenger offers a thousand automatable parameters now.
Here you can watch Synthmaster's automation target list _ https://vimeo.com/186289102 Enjoy

Werid because Markus from Tone2 told me there's a limitation of 128 automatable parameters for Electra2, and it is also stated in the LuSH-101 manual that there is this limitation within the VST and AU specifications.

Which plugin format is Synthmaster in the video you made?

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:56 pm

chk071 wrote: Werid because Markus from Tone2 told me there's a limitation of 128 automatable parameters for Electra2, and it is also stated in the LuSH-101 manual that there is this limitation within the VST and AU specifications.

Thats not true.

If you have Albino3, check it out, it exposes 6400 parameters to the host.

(Some of them are labeled hidden/reserved, but still exposed.)

click for fullsize

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:17 pm

Mh, ok. Here's what Markus wrote when i asked about the lack of automatable parameters:

Markus from Tone2 wrote:Electra2 is a huge synth wtih thousands of parameters. Many hosts (Ableton, etc...) can only manage a maximum of 256 parameters. To offer the best possible compatibility we decided to do 'best of' a selection of the most important automation parameters.

And here is what it says on the LuSH-101 manual:

LuSH-101 manual wrote:Due to the fact that the number of sound parameters in LuSH-101 synthesizer is counted in thousands, and the parameters automation assured by the host application accordingly with VST/AU technologies allows to use max. 128
automatable parameters, we can map/assign the chosen internal parameters of the synthesizer on 128 automatable (from the host level) general usage parameters in the Parameters tab.

So, both sources state that the number of automatable parameters host can manage is different, still it says the amount of parameters is limited. Maybe the situation is different nowadays.

sircuit · Post by **sircuit** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:40 pm

My example was AU under Logic Pro X. I have several plugins that report like this to the host - an endless list of parameters to scroll. Ableton Live has a way nicer approach of selecting the parameter for automation, so it's not a problem there.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:53 pm

chk071 wrote:So, both sources state that the number of automatable parameters host can manage is different, still it says the amount of parameters is limited. Maybe the situation is different nowadays.

Well i can tell you that REAPER shows all 6400 too. energyXT lists everything in a stupidly long vertical menu, (which i couldnt be bothered to scroll all the way down), but it seems that they are all there as well. And even the rather old Phrazor has no problem with that amount, the parameter list even jumps automatically to the last touched parameter.

So no idea what exactly they meant when they said that. Probably had their reasons, but personally i dont remember ever encountering such a limit...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:01 pm

Okay, then i guess it shouldn't be a problem anymore these days. Probably hails from god knows when.

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:13 am

...there is a difference between the midi protocol and a host automation protocol in terms of the amount of controls as well as the resolution. The midi protocol allows 128 controlss with 128 values. I don't know exactly, but I guess, the host protocol(s) can go into the thousands (controls & resolution). There are, however, hosts that limit the number of automation adresses, e.g. Ableton Live currently allows just 256 controls of host automation...

bronxsound · Post by **bronxsound** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:18 am

in two words... hugely impressive

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:29 am

chk071 wrote:Okay, then i guess it shouldn't be a problem anymore these days. Probably hails from god knows when.

Just a guess, but it could be that they meant that 128 is the maximum number of parameters that can actually be automated in a plugin, not that this is the maximum number of parameters a plugin can expose to the host.

If so, a plugin could expose thousands of parameters to the host but still only 128 of them (whichever 128 you pick) can actually be automated.

Just a guess, but it would all make sense that way.

(Personally i was never even close to automating 128 parameters in ANY plugin so i wouldnt know.)

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