Is anyone feeling Punk-Hop?

[spaceman]

what would you quote as the origin of jazz, blues, rock, pop, etc. then?

african conga music?
russian kozak flute music?

I'm not talking about the origin of all music, only the said genres

jeez man, give up, you're living up to your sig here.

jazz and blues were indeed influenced by western march music and church hymns. but the thing that makes them tick comes from Africa.

like the chemical bros say: "It began in Africa.. ca.. ca"!

well, there you have it.. all that reaches people these days is completely westernised.. I don't like it any more than you, it's the reason why most of it is crap. If rap and hip-hop still contained that raw spirit it might actually still be good.

unfortunately the good performers/bands can be counted on one hand.. maybe there's a lot of them, but you don't hear them on the radio or see them on the tele

[aMUSEd]

Anyone heard "Weaving my ancestor's voices" by Sheila Chandra? It's a wonderful album for showing the common origins of many musical traditions. Very beautiful too - lovely singing.

[pHz]

its difficult i guess to seperate out the historic origins of culture and its contemporary triggers ...

... hip-hop (to name but one genre) obviously has its roots in africa but IS totally western in nature and preoccupations

slainte rob

[Kriminal]

... hip-hop (to name but one genre) obviously has its roots in africa...

Because the artists are black?

[pHz]

... hip-hop (to name but one genre) obviously has its roots in africa...

Because the artists are black?

no ...

... because ULTIMATELY it comes from the blues (if you follow the tenuous links right back) which DOES have its roots in slave culture (mixed with a little european folk music by way of early country) and so furthest back in african culture

slainte rob

[Sielsynth]

No, because of the way the percussion is used to develop the rhythm. Most hip hop tunes are driven by the beat. Other elements are typically added on.

This is a interesting place to be discussing the origins of different music sources.

Check out Herbie Hancock's "Dis is Da Drum"

[Kriminal]

Depends what they sampled really. I wouldnt say it was strictly a black/blues thing myself.

[pHz]

Depends what they sampled really. I wouldnt say it was strictly a black/blues thing myself.

not now perhaps ...

... but that is what is was trying to say (or was that in the other thread ??? ) ... seperate out what things ARE from what they CAME FROM ...

... origins of hip-hop evolution (in cultural terms) ultimately come from slave culture (plus some other stuff thrown into the mix) even if nowadays it IS a purely western consumer-driven commodity-obsessed thing ...

slainte rob

[aMUSEd]

...because ULTIMATELY it comes from the blues (if you follow the tenuous links right back) which DOES have its roots in slave culture (mixed with a little european folk music by way of early country) and so furthest back in african culture

Of course "African culture" is a huge simplification anyway - its so very diverse - more than any other continent in fact - reflecting it's status as our common birthplace ultimately. Several major language groups reflecting thousands of years of migrations from and back to Africa - hundreds if not thousands of variations on language and culture. All cultures are mixed; there is no way to separate out any one thread from the tapestry without depriving it of it's life and history. That's what I like about that Sheila Chandra album - it's about the tapestry; not about separating out threads but about how they are interwoven and inextricable. We have so much more in common than the things that separate us.

[pHz]

Of course "African culture" is a huge simplification anyway - its so very diverse - more than any other continent in fact - reflecting it's status as our common birthplace ultimately. Several major language groups reflecting thousands of years of migrations from and back to Africa - hundreds if not thousands of variations on language and culture. All cultures are mixed; there is no way to separate out any one thread from the tapestry without depriving it of it's and history. That's what I like about that Sheila Chandra album - it's about the tapestry; not about separating out threads but about how they are interwoven and inextricable. We have so much more in common than the things that separate us.

agreed ...

(what about the term 'western culture' then ??? )

slainte rob

[nuffink]

Rock music was invented by Chiang Kai Chek in 1796.

[aMUSEd]

(what about the term 'western culture' then ??? )

The same - though we are not as diverse by a long chalk there is still a long history of cultural movements and cross pollination. In fact the Chandra album is mostly about Indo-European musical traditions - though the Dravidian elements possibly relate to African and SE Asian influences and the Basque elements maybe even go back as far as Cro-Magnon tribes.

[pHz]

(what about the term 'western culture' then ??? )

The same - though we are not as diverse by a long chalk there is still a long history of cultural movements and cross pollination. In fact the Chandra album is mostly about Indo-European musical traditions - though the Dravidian elements possibly relate to African and SE Asian influences and the Basque elements maybe even go back as far as Cro-Magnon tribes.

heehee ... just checking ...

slainte rob

[spaceman]

..maybe even go back as far as Cro-Magnon tribes..

never been very commercial though

[crazed one]