Will we ever see vsts of Korg Z1 or Yamaha VL?

[stevebard]

Will we ever see vsts of Yamaha VL (VL 1, VL 70m etc) and/or Korg Z1/Oasys pci? It's 20 plus years since these physical modelling breakthoughs. Is there no-one of influence at Yamaha or Korg who is sufficiently interested, or do they think there would be insignificant financial return, or do they still want to reserve the tech for future hardware (I realize Korg have futher refined this technology in the Oasys keyboard and Kronos). Or would it be quite difficult to port to Windows/Mac? Korg have given us the Wavestation in virtual form, so maybe there's hope..

Or are they perhaps of mainly historical interest now, superceded by more recent physical modelling developments in software eg Tassman/String Studio/ Chromaphone, Pianoteq's models of eg harp, hand pans, vibes, clavinet etc as well as Logic Sculpture and Modelonia for hybrid acoustics.

The Korg Z1 was quite a breakthrough in 1997, providing polyphonic, distinct models of most major classes of acoustic and electric instruments- reeds, brass, plucked and bowed string, e piano, organ etc. The only thing it didn't attempt was acoustic pianos. It just seems a pity this musically expressive technology hasn't been made available to the software world (and in Yamaha's case has disappeared entirely (?) despite people still speaking with awe of the VL 1), and has been enjoyed by so few. I have a Z1 and a VL 70m and would love vsts of them to really get into the editing possibilities more easily.

[aMUSEd]

I have a Z1 and a VL 70m and would love vsts of them to really get into the editing possibilities more easily.

Me too, if you want a decent software editor for the VL70 get this, it's not a plugin but does everything:

http://www.vl70m-editor.com/site/

tbh I think the Z1 is easy to edit using the synth - it's so well designed but it also has a lot less depth in terms of params to edit than the VL - same is true of most of the modern physical modelling plugins. While several of the more dedicated ones (eg Pianoteq) do sound much more convincing for what they do, they come nowhere near the sophistication of the models in the VL70.

[electro]

Yamaha S-YXG100 plus was released in 1998.

2003
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&p=346722

2006
http://www.matrixsynth.com/2006/07/poly ... synth.html

Pianoteq 5 does the best Piano modelling. Pianoteq's harp and mallet instruments are very well done.

[EvilDragon]

Z1 probably never, source code for its DSP is supposedly lost.

[electro]

Wasn't some of the Prophecy and Z1 code ported over to Korg OASYS PCI?

[fmr]

Z1 probably never, source code for its DSP is supposedly lost.

Isn't it possible to get it back from a hardware unit?

[EvilDragon]

After it's been compiled to bytecode? A herculean ordeal. Not impossible, but highly improbable and since Korg still holds all the rights (AFAIK), nobody except them is allowed to do so. And I don't think they are inclined to do so.

[george]

It's doesn't really matter if source code is lost, you can always reverse engineer that. In the meanwhile the more contact who is contacting Kong about a Z1 the more possibilities to get it released

[stevebard]

Hi aMUSEd- thanks for bringing the vl 70 editor to my attention. I guess it could be well worth the money to transform my unit from essentially a preset box to an accessible if challenging very deep synth. I agree that the Z1 is quite clearly laid out, you just have to bring up a large number of separate pages on the small screen to do any serious patch creation. I've seen a couple of software editors available- may try this one: http://www.iax-software.com

There was a great series of articles in Sound on Sound years ago called "Synth School"- a couple of articles discussed the different approaches to physical modelling taken by Yamaha and Korg (Korg having separate models for each instrument type, and Yamaha having a single very complex model). (I just tried to find these articles on the SoS website but it seems they are too old to be in the archive).
Anyway, although I realize Yamaha's implementation is usually considered much deeper, I don't personally find much difference in quality, realism or playability (including using a WX5 wind controller) in eg sax and trumpet voices between the z1 and vl 70. I have Patchman voices on both synths. Maybe I need to refine the controller parameters...

[fmr]

Hi Steve: You can find the articles following this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20150629000 ... Issues.php - The first article was published in the issue of June 1997.

I think the Yamaha method you are referring is Digital Waveguide or Waveguide Synthesis, and was created at CCRMA: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/wg.html In the 80s, there was another company (or Yamaha division, I don't know) working with Yamaha on that. The company was called Sondius.

[stevebard]

Hi Steve: You can find the articles following this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20150629000 ... Issues.php - The first article was published in the issue of June 1997. I think the Yamaha method you are referring is Digital Waveguide or Waveguide Synthesis, and was created at CCRMA: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/wg.html In the 80s, there was another company (or Yamaha division, I don't know) working with Yamaha on that. The company was called Sondius.

Thanks for that fmr. It's good to know that series of articles that first educated me about the history of synthesis methods is still available. The discussion of Yamaha and Korg physical modelling is part 11 in issue September 1998 in case anyone's interested.

[jackmazzotti]

Z1 probably never, source code for its DSP is supposedly lost.

Yes because the person who designed it died and no one apparently can understand his notes. I called Korg and that is what they told me.

[Dasheesh]

Isn't that what LOOM is supposed to be? That is, if you're willing to sell your soul to the devil.

[EvilDragon]

Loom (if you're talking about AIR Music Tech) is just additive synthesis. Z1 and VL are something completely different.

[george]

Yep Z1 is a monster synth