Will we ever see vsts of Korg Z1 or Yamaha VL?
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- KVRAF
- 6372 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
There is one other common problem with using breath or wind controllers with software – MIDI learn itself. It's a disaster area with a breath controller plugged in. You have to use a knobby controller like a Novation SL first to set up the MIDI map and then plug the BC3 or whatever. The saving grace with something like Zebra2 is that you can edit the mappings afterwards.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
thats my live setup that i play with wx5 windsynth. ive actually explanded on it as now i run 2 projects in reaper that i toggle between.
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Kaivo doesn't really aim to recreate perfect models of existing acoustic instruments, it's semi-modular synth that uses PM methods to produce interesting and responsive sounds. I'd like to get Kaivo one day, but I'm still exploring Native Instruments Prism, which is sort of similar in the sense that it doesn't aim to be a piano or a goddamn trumpet plugin. Prism is an exciter-modal bank design, Kaivo is a unique granulator-resonator-body design where the latter two are physical models, and the granulator acts as an exciter for the resonator.Stollmeister wrote:Where does Madrona Labs Kaivo and Mutable Instruments Element fit in this World of physical modelling?
Fantastic, otherworldly sounds ooze out of them, and while they can make some kinds of real sounds convincingly, they aren't really in the same vein as VL or other realistic systems.
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- KVRAF
- 37393 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Prism is probably closer to Element.jon wrote:Kaivo doesn't really aim to recreate perfect models of existing acoustic instruments, it's semi-modular synth that uses PM methods to produce interesting and responsive sounds. I'd like to get Kaivo one day, but I'm still exploring Native Instruments Prism, which is sort of similar in the sense that it doesn't aim to be a piano or a goddamn trumpet plugin. Prism is an exciter-modal bank design, Kaivo is a unique granulator-resonator-body design where the latter two are physical models, and the granulator acts as an exciter for the resonator.Stollmeister wrote:Where does Madrona Labs Kaivo and Mutable Instruments Element fit in this World of physical modelling?
Fantastic, otherworldly sounds ooze out of them, and while they can make some kinds of real sounds convincingly, they aren't really in the same vein as VL or other realistic systems.
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Not familiar with that one, do you have a link? Google gave me just a basic analog synth by Waves.
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- KVRAF
- 37393 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
You just quoted it - Mutable Instruments Element - uses modal synthesis like Prism
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- KVRAF
- 5666 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
As a total fanatic of Physical/Acoustic Modeling, I'd love to see a modern take on the VL1/VP1/Z1 in software.
We already have an interesting choice of Physical Modelling synths in software, even though, most do not really nail the sound of the sounds they are trying to emulate. This is mostly ok with me personally, as I'm interested in PM in order to find new sounds, which have a 'generic' acoustic timbre, one that can not be associated with anything that exists. For this reason, I love how easy Sculpture makes it to mix between 4 materials with the XY pad. It would be nice to see more of this in any new Acoustic Modeling instruments.
However, one very important aspect that has been greatly neglected by software companies is how the sounds behave with performance gestures and controllers. For example, the VL1 had this amazing pitch-bend behaviour in the Flute model, where the pitch bend behaved in a very organic manner, changing the harmonic content and intensity of sound. Such obvious gestural emulation is absent in the software synths that we can buy today. This is a great shame. Some companies even appear to destroy their initial attempt at real-time expression and eliminate options from new upgrades. For example, Applied Acoustic Systems' String Studio VS-1 offered a way to assign any parameter to the mod wheel. The system was clunky but it worked. When String Studio VS-2 was released this option was taken out. Now, the mod wheel is hardwired to vibrato. This is such a step backwards, it's almost shocking.
So, I'd love to see more instruments that focus at what happens when acoustic sounds are performed live, how the pitch bend behaves, how the timbre changes if the reed is overblown, how the string snaps if it's pulled too much, etc, etc. Then, we will be in the position to apply these gestural sounds to new timbres. This is what excites me, and in this context pretty much all the current Physical Modelling instruments are very boring.
We already have an interesting choice of Physical Modelling synths in software, even though, most do not really nail the sound of the sounds they are trying to emulate. This is mostly ok with me personally, as I'm interested in PM in order to find new sounds, which have a 'generic' acoustic timbre, one that can not be associated with anything that exists. For this reason, I love how easy Sculpture makes it to mix between 4 materials with the XY pad. It would be nice to see more of this in any new Acoustic Modeling instruments.
However, one very important aspect that has been greatly neglected by software companies is how the sounds behave with performance gestures and controllers. For example, the VL1 had this amazing pitch-bend behaviour in the Flute model, where the pitch bend behaved in a very organic manner, changing the harmonic content and intensity of sound. Such obvious gestural emulation is absent in the software synths that we can buy today. This is a great shame. Some companies even appear to destroy their initial attempt at real-time expression and eliminate options from new upgrades. For example, Applied Acoustic Systems' String Studio VS-1 offered a way to assign any parameter to the mod wheel. The system was clunky but it worked. When String Studio VS-2 was released this option was taken out. Now, the mod wheel is hardwired to vibrato. This is such a step backwards, it's almost shocking.
So, I'd love to see more instruments that focus at what happens when acoustic sounds are performed live, how the pitch bend behaves, how the timbre changes if the reed is overblown, how the string snaps if it's pulled too much, etc, etc. Then, we will be in the position to apply these gestural sounds to new timbres. This is what excites me, and in this context pretty much all the current Physical Modelling instruments are very boring.
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- KVRAF
- 11162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
As I wrote, it's the expressiveness and playability that really place PM apart from any other synthesis technique.himalaya wrote: So, I'd love to see more instruments that focus at what happens when acoustic sounds are performed live, how the pitch bend behaves, how the timbre changes if the reed is overblown, how the string snaps if it's pulled too much, etc, etc. Then, we will be in the position to apply these gestural sounds to new timbres. This is what excites me, and in this context pretty much all the current Physical Modelling instruments are very boring.
That and the possibility to start with an acoustic model and go into something crazy or even "physically" impossible. That said, I thunk that AAS (with Tassman) are the ones that are in a better place to come up with something really good in this territory, maybe borrowing some ideas from Sculpture (boy, I was so excited when it appeared). Maybe we should start writing them about this... Hello AAS, are you listening?
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Right, Elements is a eurorack module though.aMUSEd wrote:You just quoted it - Mutable Instruments Element - uses modal synthesis like Prism
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- KVRAF
- 37393 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
Cool. I also know they use the same synthesis method, but that's where the similarities end. Elements is basically 1/4 of a Prism oscillator, mono and costs 10 times as much alone.aMUSEd wrote:I know
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660 - Banned
- 6787 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Reaktor prism uses modal synthesis. Steap bandpass filters ( up to 20000) getting excited by eithervan impulse or noise.
Mutable instruments elements also uses modal synthesis.
Check out my reaktor ensemble called ' modal 32 ' or 'modal 64'..
Indepent mouse sweep action for bandpass decay/amp/ratio.
Have fun.
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/7735/
Mutable instruments elements also uses modal synthesis.
Check out my reaktor ensemble called ' modal 32 ' or 'modal 64'..
Indepent mouse sweep action for bandpass decay/amp/ratio.
Have fun.
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/7735/
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
a lot of people are on the same page, some don't want to be.. for those who are attempting to... 
must've forgotten to mention another notable z1 track/patch...
with samples, every time you want a different instrument, you need a new ROM. the medieval reed bit was a good example.. for another track, i needed a "third grade violinist," where are you going to get a sample pack like that??? it took me a couple minutes to add some lfos et c. until i had a wonderfully squeaky, scratchy hacky violin part that reminded me of grade school
it's kind of like, in the 90's when you first get to try composing with a rompler, and can do cheesy renditions of popular genres (like that over the top hype music they used for "waterbed warehouse clearance sales")... not only a whole world of reference is at your fingertips, but tangent and vaguely tangent regions.. the variations of a squeaky violinist or trumpet player would be asinine to sell sample sets of, but long ago, we had all this, in a set of software rules. i always felt as if the only barrier between the z1 and a convincing performance, was really my mixing and implementation.
PM enthusiasts ought to have a read of perry cook's book, though the STK and most of the book are online or repeated in some form. a lot of PM synthesis implementations seem relatively canonical. one can do interesting things by eg. using modal synthesis with a mass-spring hammer (that blue vibraphone model i did) or.. all types of things. some people model strings with karplus strong, there's a free string model that uses mass-springs.
instead of saying "this vst is crap" trying to be aware of what method is involved allows you to appreciate what you're getting for the cpu resourcing et al. (perhaps it's more developers that still think of this as important nowadays? because some of us are old buggers).
the fact is, J.O.S.3 ("jose"?) has a profound erudition few can aspire to. "quite honestly in my opinion" ive heard models by people with better math chops but inferior emulative/analytical ears *imo* .. so given the reduced appraisal of cooperation in a commercially competitive society, there isn't much reason for someone to realistically appraise their own deficits when developing and releasing a product.
must've forgotten to mention another notable z1 track/patch...
with samples, every time you want a different instrument, you need a new ROM. the medieval reed bit was a good example.. for another track, i needed a "third grade violinist," where are you going to get a sample pack like that??? it took me a couple minutes to add some lfos et c. until i had a wonderfully squeaky, scratchy hacky violin part that reminded me of grade school
it's kind of like, in the 90's when you first get to try composing with a rompler, and can do cheesy renditions of popular genres (like that over the top hype music they used for "waterbed warehouse clearance sales")... not only a whole world of reference is at your fingertips, but tangent and vaguely tangent regions.. the variations of a squeaky violinist or trumpet player would be asinine to sell sample sets of, but long ago, we had all this, in a set of software rules. i always felt as if the only barrier between the z1 and a convincing performance, was really my mixing and implementation.
PM enthusiasts ought to have a read of perry cook's book, though the STK and most of the book are online or repeated in some form. a lot of PM synthesis implementations seem relatively canonical. one can do interesting things by eg. using modal synthesis with a mass-spring hammer (that blue vibraphone model i did) or.. all types of things. some people model strings with karplus strong, there's a free string model that uses mass-springs.
instead of saying "this vst is crap" trying to be aware of what method is involved allows you to appreciate what you're getting for the cpu resourcing et al. (perhaps it's more developers that still think of this as important nowadays? because some of us are old buggers).
the fact is, J.O.S.3 ("jose"?) has a profound erudition few can aspire to. "quite honestly in my opinion" ive heard models by people with better math chops but inferior emulative/analytical ears *imo* .. so given the reduced appraisal of cooperation in a commercially competitive society, there isn't much reason for someone to realistically appraise their own deficits when developing and releasing a product.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 25 Sep, 2016
I have just started experimenting with tassman 4. I can only imagine the potential of sounds I will get from this vst. I use an ipod and iconnectivity for realtime playing. I'm also charting the settings I use to accomplish sounds so I can see what settings will get the sounds I want. I'm currently trying to get a poly timbral routing to set up a drumpad to multi instances to tassman for the different drum sounds which I believe sound fantastic. I'm hoping that others will try this softsynth and explore it's possibilities and share them on the forum.