New Slate fx !!!!

[Synapse2k]

I would've gone with the Slate plugins and must say they're a really really good bargain that's much recommended. For the most part it's likely his bundle will only get better but I find that I use other things instead of my specific choices in his plugins. The API collection from Waves is my preferred EQ for every mix and the head of API just passed away. I can't get enough of the 3 knob 3 ring eq and the graphic eq from the API collection and in my opinion just those two alone are worth the $299 that the whole API collection regularly costs. I got 4 API plugins for $199. They have a considerably good analog flavor and in ways may presumably beat the similar "Custom EQ" from Slate. Another forerunner to the API collection from Waves and Slates Custom EQ is the group of EQ's similarly designed from Kush Audio and also one of the Specific Lindell plugs. My problem with the Kush is that I blind bought the Clariphonic by mistake, though, and don't like it.

At a minimum I recommend Slate Digital's FG-X Limiter. It's one of my preferred limiters that also has built in transient control and other cool things that effect the mix, plus a compressor. Can't beat the FG-X along with the free MLimit from MeldaProduction and also amongst my other favorite compressor limiters COMBO's is the Cubase Tube Compressor combined with Venomode's own Maximal maximizer/exciter combo. The exciter is exceedingly SMOOOOOOTH with the Maximal maximizer. None of the tape or simple compressors or surgical parametric eq's for the most part do it for me but I like the Air Premium surgical parametric EQ when it comes to mostly transparent eq in WAYYYS but I've been preferring using the Cubase internal EQ these days on a per channel basis or only on the master bus to eliminate everything below 30 hZ and boost in the mid high range and sometimes give a slight 125 hZ boost in a smaller Q range. Considering that Slate now offers what looks like a fantastic Delay Line unit with full range and also FG-X + the wonderful distressor, it's enough to assume $14.99 a month is worth it. Fully recommended. But I just bought the Sound Toys bundle this month primarily for the incredibly good PhaseMistress and EchoBoy unit that combined into seperate purchases nearly add to the whole price of the several plugin bundle. When you top off the Sound Toys bundle with Crystal Delay the only underlying issue with the Sound Toys bundle is allievated by the fact that the 3 afforementioned plugins are really really good. But the issue with the bundle is that the autopanner, distortion/saturation units and pitch shifters and tremelo plug are pure crap.

Plugins in modern times are a question of legally comparing and contrasting and A/Bing perfect hardware and other software and also mastered works and unmastered works and basic sound sources and sometimes reverse engineering hardware units and I'm pretty certain that the legal system for hardware units is something like a 25 year statute of limitations for reverse engineers. I am aware that it's very common to mix and match others audio and noone copyrights natural classical instrument types at all or trademarks them, of course. When people freely mix and edit patches for sampling purposes it's because noone ever challenged them and we have things like DX-7 emulators and various other manufacturers emulating stuff.

It's interesting that Slate Digital is offering so much these days and I couldn't see why in the market we have today how his sales wouldn't potentially boost profit if corporations aren't supporting his company like they do with big boys like Adobe and Microsoft. I am majorly turned off by Adobe's exhorbitant prices for Photoshop and Adobe Audition because I don't use a wave editor extensively enough to justify paying the full purchase price of the program in a less than two year period of cloud rental. The logic of $14.99 for the whole slate bundle is the same logic as offering what seems to me is arguably better than most mixers which is the Slate Raven. In actuality if they don't come out with FG-X 2 with something better than simple saturation and widening then I will more likely use my special Tube Compressor/Maximal combo more often than FG-X for the most part, likely and I'm not planning on using the Raven because I am a gimp who can't ergonomicly lean over to use any touch screen or any hardware. I have a neat setup and am mostly just pointing out that Slate Digital is the best choice for those who don't want the other choices I mentioned. I use two nearfield speakers and a small desk with a mini keyboard right in front of my 61 key Novation LE MK I and I have a lazy boy soft armchair with heavy duty wheels that makes it so that I can fixate to my tasks.

If anyone is curious I would've jumped on the slate bundle with no hesitation if I wasn't already a die hard API user and also didn't already have a chosen full preferred mastering chain and I recommend Slate completely now that the new fx are out. For anyone who wants to know, the Klangheim, the Big Blue Compressor, DAW default only mastering chains, the Flux tools, possibly all of the Kush despite nice front ends & the Fab Filter plugs and also all Waves plugs except the API collection didn't seem to have any point in using whether free or purchased. I mean it. Any point in using whether free or purchased. So go get the Maximal demo and a copy of Cubase artist 8.5 educational or sale and the API collection or buy Slate or lean on the Lindell because it's just likely that nothing else in the compressor maximizer limiter or even EQ market is worth it compared to the plugs I mentioned. Lindell offers a 30 day demo and API offers either 30 or 14. Same thing with Slate. But Slate has some extra baggage that isn't useful. This world is illogical to me to have a plugin like Clariphonic that doesn't make any sound. Anyone want to demo it and talk to me about that? Some of the Waves tools are pure toys and everyone says Waves is their goto tool. And then we've got the Melda Production free bundle that might be the best free bundle ever released. Can someone here confirm with me why Kush Audio.com Clariphonic makes no alteration to the sound practically and why some of the Voxengo plugins do nothing to the sound. Sound comes through but isn't altered. In addition the Klangheim compressors and the Fab Filter tools are piss poor productions. I am confused as to why others raved about the Klangheim. Please don't be offended by my insults they're not anything that would be taken critically because no sound alteration occurs. Even Flux Audio Alchemy makes no alteration to the sound. Is it something different on the other end? I was able to get results in any way only from some of the Waves plugins, also. I only very briefly demoed all of the plugins I consider non choice.

Okay enough for my long message now. Please buy whatever you want but someone tell me, why do lot's of engineering tools do nothing to the sound that others have called god sends? Every VSTi I ever tried functions fine. I'll tell YOU why it doesn't do anything for anything I know. Lords and a voice command system is my theory. Fully open voice command system because of tricky persuasion and trust issues. Then next thing you know mixup after mixup because of tons of worry and voice command after voice command. They listen to idiots. They didn't want my mixes to sound clean. The lords are assholes. Live and learn by studying the mentioned plugs and pray for less weather and disaster if that's all you think they have. It's not. It's persuasion even of our US military "elites" that puts America in the shit hole. "Testing" purpsoses were trusted. I am accomplished if anyone learns what they need to from me and I am a fine artist as well. But the lords are lazy bums who are only interface punks not willing to stop miserly uneducated evil old men who never had anything but one tome for billions of years of "CHOSEN" lineage and verbal communications with their suitors. Evolution is me. Labelled terror by lame asses.

[Compyfox]

Very much looking forward to this. If it's up to usual Slate quality it's hard imagine needing anything more for reverb. For me the only way to go is ownership though.

It's a multi IR based reverb, not an algorithmic one. You have to decide for yourself if you want/need that.

Rental is indeed too unpredictable. Monthly fees change whenever they want it to. $15/month doesn't sound like much but look what happened to TV bills ($15 --> $200). There is no way that fee isn't going up. It will be $30 or more soon enough (justified because they keep adding more plugins) and because you've used it in all your projects it's hard to let it go. You just got yourself another utility bill and some of you probably are living month to month.

The fee did drop from initially 30USD down to 25USD, and now we're at 15USD (if you do a 1-year subscription), else 25USD (it's a per-month basis).

I think this move was done to lower the entry hesitation. Though I agree, to some this would mean "underselling" on the long run. But it seems to work out for Slate Digital - else they would have dropped off of the planet by now. Or changed prices drastically up again.

I admit that sounds almost too easy, but it still seems possible to me - does anyone know more or can tell me if I'm missing some facts?

Interesting thinking, but I don't think you will get far. The "Bricasti" set for example is indeed *.FIR (and can therefore be loaded in Reverberate 2), but the factory library looks like a locked format (I did get error messages while trying to load the files). So, there is your answer.

I'm not sure if I really read a similar question on GearSlutz as well - but I seem to remember the answer being "in the end, you just have to decide if you want both reverbs" - which is actually quite clever marketing if you think about it.

...So go get the Maximal demo and a copy of Cubase artist 8.5 educational or sale and the API collection or buy Slate or lean on the Lindell because it's just likely that nothing else in the compressor maximizer limiter or even EQ market is worth it compared to the plugs I mentioned.

I respect your opinion, but I personally don't think so.

This world is illogical to me to have a plugin like Clariphonic that doesn't make any sound.

If you talk "Classic EQ", that's a parallel EQ like the Kush Audio Clariphonic parallel EQ. Neither of them introduce saturation, they're "as clean as it gets" (though throw in a bridged Variety of Sound ThrillseekerXTC, and then we're talking "saturation").

Maybe the Clariphonic isn't too obvious to you, which it shouldn't be in the first place (parallel EQ's do sound more subtle, even if strongly boosted - same happens for vladg/Tokyo Dawn Labs NOVA). The Slate Parallel EQ does have some filter bumps at certain frequencies, which makes the effect more prominent.

In addition the Klangheim compressors and the Fab Filter tools are piss poor productions. I am confused as to why others raved about the Klangheim. Please don't be offended by my insults they're not anything that would be taken critically because no sound alteration occurs.

Sorry but as Klanghelm user, and Fabfilter user (at clients places), I can not confirm that.

Again, maybe what you hear is "too subtle" for you, and therefore you say "piss poor, nothing is altered". In this case, you should maybe take a closer look with proper analysis tools. Yes, DC8C-2 is a "digital" concept (which can distort really fast!), but MJUC is a really colorful compressor (it's based upon concepts from compressors of the late 50ies/early 60ies after all - think Antec/Abbey Road RS-124 or Gates SA-39). Not as colorful as maybe Slate's FG-MU (which does overdo it in the upper mids - even on default settings! - which was intentional btw). Same goes for Klanghelm's SDRR - which compared to Slate's VCC (Console Collection) or VPC (Preamp Collection) is not(!) a specific console or preamp design - but an alternative approach to the concept.

Fabfilter are digital tools - and brutal at that as well. Even with only slight changes.


Maybe you should check your equipment?
Or even your ears?

Okay enough for my long message now. Please buy whatever you want but someone tell me, why do lot's of engineering tools do nothing to the sound that others have called god sends?

Because certain tools are just fit for certain jobs. If you want "as clean tools as possible", usable for pretty much every task (I like to call them "surgical tools"), you can have them. If you want "analog dirt" type tools, you can have them. In the end it's down to preference, what sound you're after.

Personally I can work with both. And depending on the production I work on, I do access either clean/surgical (dare I say "digital") tools, or tools that introduce a lot if inconsistency, crosstalk, uncontrollable noise, wobbling, unstable pitch, etc.

It doesn't matter - as long as you're happy with the endresult and the message of the production comes across.


If you think "there is nothing happening" - then this is either to user error, or personal preference of a certain expected sound.




Sorry - but the rest of your post is just random rambling to me.

[woodsdenis]

After trying the Verbsuite out it is very good, the difference between the "fusion" Irs and the Samplicity Bricasti Irs is night and day. It also uses about half the CPU that Altiverb does. This is not a reverb for tweakers as what you see is what you get on the front panel. A direct comparison to the the Relab and it is very close on the presets I tried.

[JJ_Jettflow]

So my question is (still):
Who is really punished in this case? Either side of the valid customers investing their hard earned cash? Or the iLok users, because (again) "iLok2 sucks!"

Who, other than you, says anyone is getting punished? It seems to me that if you are getting a tool that advances your creativity, then regardless of the protection scheme or the choice of payment, the tool should be judged on its value to you and your end product.

I happen to own both purchased D16 products and the Slate subscription (plus much more) and price, protection scheme, whether they have been cracked or not, means nothing to me. If they allow me to get what I hear in my head to a finished work of art then that is the only thing that matters.

BTW the Verb is excellent and a great addition to an already great deal. Not missing Relab at all!

[Compyfox]

It was a rhetorical question to the whiny commentary "why should I support the iLok?! Is sure hope this will be sold via xyz as well". My question was, who will be ultimately punished with going either route. No valid argument was given as to why one version is "superior" over the other. Guess there is just no argument, other than the sake of argumentation and continued hate posts towards a certain CP scheme.


Either way - people will get their wish with D16/Slate's Relab - meaning: they can chose to buy from either company (I'm still curious about the "split camp behavior" after the release)

VerbSuite on the other hand, while being a collaboration with LiquidSonics, is only sold via Slate Digital.

[audiosabre]

I'm not sure if I really read a similar question on GearSlutz as well - but I seem to remember the answer being "in the end, you just have to decide if you want both reverbs" - which is actually quite clever marketing if you think about it.

I've thought long and hard about it. It's a small kick in the teeth, & actually makes me lose confidence in LiquidSonics and Reverberate as a platform. I bought into Reverberate early on, and of course upgraded to V2. I think the new Fusion-IR tech is great sounding, the way forward with convolution, and there was always a possibility of Fusion-IR expansions in the future, as different units are sampled.

However, now it seems the current curated Fusion-IRs and (judging by talk on that other forum) likely any future sampled units will be exclusive to Slate's closed system, at a premium price. I can't lie and say I'm not disappointed, and the 'clever marketing' hasn't worked on me. It has rubbed me the wrong way, which I don't believe is intentional. However, I think asking me to buy an entire new product for essentially an expansion is unreasonable.

Hopefully this won't be the end of the road for Reverberate, but it sort of looks and sounds that way.

[robotmonkey]

It was a rhetorical question to the whiny commentary "why should I support the iLok?! Is sure hope this will be sold via xyz as well". My question was, who will be ultimately punished with going either route. No valid argument was given as to why one version is "superior" over the other. Guess there is just no argument, other than the sake of argumentation and continued hate posts towards a certain CP scheme.


Either way - people will get their wish with D16/Slate's Relab - meaning: they can chose to buy from either company (I'm still curious about the "split camp behavior" after the release)

VerbSuite on the other hand, while being a collaboration with LiquidSonics, is only sold via Slate Digital.

Considering how things are at the moment for Slate and iLok plugins in general soon enough iLok users will be asked to move to iLok3 and pay for it out of their own pockets. So the answer is clear - it's the paying users who get punished for paying for their software. And they also have to deal with this iLok crap. The software licenser is bearable as long as it works. But there's weekly threads here and on GS about it screwing something up with peoples licenses and computers.

So it's a clear win for anyone to choose D16 version instead of iLok one and I'm glad that D16 offers alternative.

[soulone82]

So it's a clear win for anyone to choose D16 version instead of iLok one and I'm glad that D16 offers alternative.

[kmonkey]

Just a funny coincidence or VERY unhealthy move from Slate digital. People be aware.

I questioned Slate verbsuite at Gearslutz. Not anything rude i just observed and talked about my opinion on IR, asked Slate how can he try to claim that Verbsuite can be better then standard reverb Algorithm with REAL modulation in reverb tail. Basically i publicly said that in my opinion Verbsuite is simple preset player and not even a good one because there is nor real modulation in reverb tail. As you may know adding chorus after reverb (which is EXACTLY what Verbsuite and Liquidsonic is doing) is not the same as reverb tail being modulated. ER pattern (crucial in reverb) and dispersion is completely ruined by adding chorus. Transients are smeared etc. Read fake.

Also i pointed out that by the nature of his new state of the art reverb plugin (which is basically a preset player) - there is simply no parameter to adjust ant tune virtual space (read reverb) to what is needed in mix. Take TC VSS3 or Relab 480 or Aether. Quite a lot of parameters there. Not for fun. Hell even Valhalla have 2x more parameters then Verbsuite. By nature with IR you can only increase or decrease "size" or "decay" if you stretch impulse sample. But this is sounding extremely fake and unreal and does not gel with mix. I pointed that out and asked him why he claim this is better while history of IR taught us otherwise in practice.

It is the same as someone try to sell me a IR compressor preset plugin with i don't know 5 presets being 5 knob positions and then convince me that this is state of the art technology. Imagine Slate compressor having only 5. Treshold positions. And iam supposed to mix like a PRO with that? Absurd. (note - this comparison about compressor preset player was not written at GS)

He replied to me that he is sure that i know little or nothing about groundbreaking technology of Liquidsonic and he offered to provide me public test A vs B and i supposedly won't be able to tell the difference. I said ok, i may know nothing about liquidsonic tech and maybe it is something new (but it was talked here a lot of the time when Liquidsonic started and i was in to talking and in fact i do know how this is working) but that i am looking forward to hear public test.

Lo and behold - no test and i am simply rejected from conversation ?!? WTF?

Mind you i did not badmouth anyone, i did not talk crap on anyone nor did i said something rude. No warning from GS no anything. Just poof! Every time i try to read that thread where i asked these questions i got this: "You have been removed from this discussion."

Very very nice Steven Slate. I want to say thank you for not being able to read about your groundbreaking tech and so sorry if i offended you by asking LEGIT and normal questions in that thread. Sure it is some weird error that i am being rejected from that thread. From 1000 000 threads this is the only one i can not join anymore.

To me this looks like an attempt to shape public view with deceptive tactics. Simply i asked legit questions for which he does not have appropriate answer so better to shut me up? Really is that so? There is zero chance that i will ever listen to Slate HW vs SW anymore. I hope since i made it clear that this is opinion i am still free to speak about it but if KVR mod find this is not appropriate alert me and i will remove this.

And to the people which think i hate Slate or something go through my history. There is no thread where i don't praise Slate VTM and VMR especially his Neve eq.


Bye Slate company.

[Sim.Sky]

^^^

Interesting reading, thanks for sharing your experience (I really mean it )! In general I think that blind / AB tests can be a pretty dangerous thing for a 'convinced developer' and go in a totally unexpected, i.e. unpleasant direction - maybe Steven realized that himself, thinking it wouldn't be such a great idea after all That's not to say that Verbsuite would have to fail that test at all. I haven't tried it myself so I can't and don't want to judge it. It may be awesome, it may be mediocre, it may, of course, depend on your personal taste.

[kmonkey]

^^^

Interesting reading, thanks for sharing your experience (I really mean it )! In general I think that blind / AB tests can be a pretty dangerous thing for a 'convinced developer' and go in a totally unexpected, i.e. unpleasant direction - maybe Steven realized that himself, thinking it wouldn't be such a great idea after all That's not to say that Verbsuite would have to fail that test at all. I haven't tried it myself so I can't and don't want to judge it. It may be awesome, it may be mediocre, it may, of course, depend on your personal taste.

For once - i never said Verbsuite is bad plugin. I just expressed my concern based on experience in using IR technology for reverb purposes. I would use IR heavily each and every time in postprocessing video FX, weird FX etc. Beside that some mega amazing effects and spaces can be achieved in IR. I did not disliked it but i disliked how he tried to convince me that this is now the next new best thing in reverbs and asked how and why since i know different from my own experience.

All i got is rejection from conversation. Woooottt

A little bit offtopic does anyone recall back then when IR started to be commercial (more or less-----was it waves which introduce it to the masses back then? ) there was an IR library with two audio CDs being filled with most weirdest IR i ever heard. I bought it and liked it. Lost it when moving to another house. Now i can't even recall name of that...but it was amazing and very liked among KVR for adding weird spaces. 10 years ago maybe?

[Compyfox]

So it's a clear win for anyone to choose D16 version instead of iLok one and I'm glad that D16 offers alternative.

Yeah, we get it.
You don't "like" the iLok, and you "like" to make that very clear in every thread.

Just a funny coincidence or VERY unhealthy move from Slate digital. People be aware.

...

He replied to me that he is sure that i know little or nothing about groundbreaking technology of Liquidsonic and he offered to provide me public test A vs B and i supposedly won't be able to tell the difference. I said ok, i may know nothing about liquidsonic tech and maybe it is something new (but it was talked here a lot of the time when Liquidsonic started and i was in to talking and in fact i do know how this is working) but that i am looking forward to hear public test.

Lo and behold - no test and i am simply rejected from conversation ?!? WTF?

Well, the "tech" behind Reverberate and VerbSuite is "FusionIR".

This is basically a multi-IR solution in true-stereo. So more flexible/more "alive" so to speak than static IR's. This is basically the "new tech that you seem to 'know nothing about' ...".

Some love it. Personally I'm just as skeptical with plugins on the market. Because yes, at it's core it is an "IR player", and the features are more limited (less modulation capabilities) than the big brother "Reverberate 2". In this case, I'd also prefer an algorithmic reverb over an IR one (even if multi-IR).

Doesn't mean that it sounds bad though - because from what i heard so far, it does sound good (so no hate here either - just criticizing the general limitations). It's just not everyone's cup of tea, while for others (who are not stuffed with algo reverbs yet), it might be a gift from the gods.

Mind you i did not badmouth anyone, i did not talk crap on anyone nor did i said something rude. No warning from GS no anything. Just poof! Every time i try to read that thread where i asked these questions i got this: "You have been removed from this discussion."

Wait, this sounds like a moderator thing (that "thread creators" can't do). Maybe contact the mods and ask what's up?

And to the people which think i hate Slate or something go through my history. There is no thread where i don't praise Slate VTM and VMR especially his Neve eq.

While I find FG-N harsh on the upper ends, VTM and VMR/VCC are pretty much always in my project inserts (as it happened recently in my participation for the Mix Challenge.

So I think that this is maybe a mod error on GS - so before you jump to any final conclusions, contact them. Maybe there was a hiccup after all and you were locked out by accident.

[meloco_go]

which is EXACTLY what Verbsuite and Liquidsonic is doing

On this bit you are in the wrong. Fusion-IR is not like putting a chorus in series with IR.
Fusion-IRs are actually collections of impulses taken in different points of time using delta function (single non-zero sample). So instead of one impulse you get a whole bunch. If e.g. ERs are not modulated in a reverb and only the tail is, you'd get a series of impulses with same ER pattern but slightly different tails.
The next step is to have IR engine which would allow to load a new IR for each upcoming sample (the definitely must be some tricks there as it should be quite a CPU nightmare, and this is all LiquidSonics know-how) you would get a nice representation of the actual movement in a reverb. In fact the process is not unlike Nebula. They usually do similar procedure (taking a bunch of samples) but not as a function of time but as a function of amplitude (I believe I actually read somewhere they can time into frame too, and they had choruses and reverbs, but I don't know the details).
There are actually some interesting things regarding the math of the process involved (statistics, ergodicity etc) but I don't really know details and I won't pretend I know math all that well.
Anyway, Fusion-IR is NOT simply chorus after (or before) an IR. Reverberate 1 was doing that, but Reverberate 2 and Fusion-IR are much more!
Now, this does not necessarily mean Fusion-IRs are the same as the real deal or as good as the real deal.
But we all use emulations, right? Some are good and some are bad.
I would only say that to my ears, Fusion-IRs (of Bricasti) are better than both static IRs and chorused IRs (I have both Reverberate 1 and 2 and compared).

PS my post does not address your situation regarding the moderation or Steven Slate.

[Obsolete236871]

Interesting debate. I wouldn't think of IR based reverbs as being more limited in their capabilities compared to algorithmic reverbs. To me it's just two different approaches: in an algorithmic reverb one would basically dial in the desired sound by tuning the various parameters, while with IR reverbs one essentially choses the desired sound by selecting an impulse that represents the sound you desire. Thus, an impulse is the representation of a specific sound - that's why you have to choose the right sound, not create it by tuning parameters. Once an impulse is chosen, one cannot drastically tune it.

It's like the difference between sampling and synthesizing sounds - both are valid approaches and some might prefer one method over the other or utilize both.

[liquidsonics]

I'm not sure if I really read a similar question on GearSlutz as well - but I seem to remember the answer being "in the end, you just have to decide if you want both reverbs" - which is actually quite clever marketing if you think about it.

I've thought long and hard about it. It's a small kick in the teeth, & actually makes me lose confidence in LiquidSonics and Reverberate as a platform. I bought into Reverberate early on, and of course upgraded to V2. I think the new Fusion-IR tech is great sounding, the way forward with convolution, and there was always a possibility of Fusion-IR expansions in the future, as different units are sampled.

However, now it seems the current curated Fusion-IRs and (judging by talk on that other forum) likely any future sampled units will be exclusive to Slate's closed system, at a premium price. I can't lie and say I'm not disappointed, and the 'clever marketing' hasn't worked on me. It has rubbed me the wrong way, which I don't believe is intentional. However, I think asking me to buy an entire new product for essentially an expansion is unreasonable.

Hopefully this won't be the end of the road for Reverberate, but it sort of looks and sounds that way.

I think I should I offer my assurances that Slate Digital developing Fusion-IR content for use within a Slate Digital developed plugin that uses the LiquidSonics Fusion-IR convolution engine will have zero negative impact on Reverberate or LiquidSonics. Due to my tendency to reveal things when they're finished I'm in no position to prove that to you right now, but I am genuinely excited about multiple new things in development. And that's not just stage managed corporate product launch false excitement, it's person that loves what they do and new great stuff is coming excitement - so I'm getting back to XCode to do what I'm good at