It was bound to happen: an 80s instrument

[db3]

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk

[beely]

If they sampled the original patches of the D-50, isn't that illegal? I thought it was only ok to do that if you made your own presets from scratch and then sampled them.

As far as I understand it, in legal terms, the main problem in sampling these synths and creating/selling a derivative work is that it's unlicensed use of *sound recordings* owned by another company.

No ruling on patch/preset data has ever been tested, with the general consensus being that that patches themselves aren't particularly protected under law, unlike sound recordings.

So, while it's not legally advisable to sample D-50 presets, that seems more likely that's because most of them use Roland's sound recordings, rather than the preset content itself. And as the D-50 is a hybrid synth, it uses both a PCM engine *and* a VA engine, sampling from patches that *only* use the VA part, and don't use any of Roland's PCM sound recordings, (eg, "Soundtrack") is more akin to sampling an analog synth (no sound recordings involved) and is likely generally ok to do.

Now, what you can legally do is not necessarily the same as what a company can come after you for, of course, so it's always advisable to act ethically in any case, and to avoid using existing trademarks, copyrights and trade dress (ie, if you market this content as a "Roland D-50", and/or use logos, or designs that all make it clear it's Roland D-50 content, then there are more ways a company can shut you down - but these are not themselves related to the sound content.)

[SampleScience]

Sampling the D-50 is a bad idea, the developer will get caught very quickly. Some companies tolerate this, like Yamaha, but Yamaha sell more than musical instruments so that may be the reason they don't really care. Roland is specialized in musical instruments so they really protect their copyrighted sounds.

[sergiofrias]

[bobhva]

Surprised no one thought of (as in released a product) this before. Granted, not that many have/access to a collection of 80s gear as complete as these guys seem to.

Actually someone has thought of this before. UVI Synth Anthology has been around since 2012 and now version 2 is even better. SA2 is more expensive but also has a lot more content. Retro KZ 100 patchs/3,600 samples vs. Synth Anthology II 2,500 presets/20,000 samples.

[beely]

Actually someone has thought of this before. UVI Synth Anthology has been around since 2012 and now version 2 is even better.

Yes, and what they did is a) they did not sample the factory presets, and b) they made their own patches in the synths, likely avoiding obvious sound recording content (PCM samples) that would be clearly infringing, and sampled the results - so you get the vibe and character of the original instrument, but you don't get the instrument itself, or it's core content or factory sounds.

[Aryaroman]

Surprised no one thought of (as in released a product) this before. Granted, not that many have/access to a collection of 80s gear as complete as these guys seem to.

Actually someone has thought of this before. UVI Synth Anthology has been around since 2012 and now version 2 is even better. SA2 is more expensive but also has a lot more content. Retro KZ 100 patchs/3,600 samples vs. Synth Anthology II 2,500 presets/20,000 samples.

The way I see it, Synth Anthology is more a representation of particular synths, not a one-stop "dial-the-Beat-It-gong"-collection like this.

Yeah, you might stumble upon the Beat It-gong or the Seinfeld Bass in there, but the product doesn't market itself as a one-stop for certain famous patches, while RetroKZ is based purely on picking famous and recognisable sounds in famous songs and soundtracks of the 80s/early 90s. These sounds are currently trending, which is why I think it's surprising no one thought of a collection like this before.

While the actual content is of course similar and you might even find the exact same sounds in Synth Anthology, the execution and idea is more similar to something like the Kontakt library Esper Synth (great btw), which is based on the famous sounds in Blade Runner. Similarly RetroKZ seems to have sampled the most-(over)used factory patches.

Take the Seinfeld Bass. UVI's Digital Synsations (some content included in Synth Anthology) has sampled it, but due to possible copyright infringment, it's called (?) Thump Bass. To find it, you have to know which synth it's from and then dig it up from the collection of 20 other less-famous patches.
Rhythmic Robot on the other hand sells the same sampled patch and calls it Seinfeld Bass.

That said, I do agree with you, that Synth Anthology is much better value for money in the long run, but for 40e, no ILok and focus on only the famous patches? This sounds okay. But we'll see.

Actually someone has thought of this before. UVI Synth Anthology has been around since 2012 and now version 2 is even better.

Yes, and what they did is a) they did not sample the factory presets, and b) they made their own patches in the synths, likely avoiding obvious sound recording content (PCM samples) that would be clearly infringing, and sampled the results - so you get the vibe and character of the original instrument, but you don't get the instrument itself, or it's core content or factory sounds.

I believe there's a major market gap BeatSkillz has "found", a one that Synth Anthology misses because of doing their own sound designing instead of recording just the factory content and "those sounds". I'm not saying that UVI should do that or think that BeatSkillz can sample whatever they want, no, I'm just thinking about this from a selling perspective. And it seems, the latter might have stepped on something less enticing than a selling concept, so we'll see whether this even gets to full speed or if it's taken down. If it's not, I reckon they'll make a nice buck.

[Numanoid]

Sampling the D-50 is a bad idea, the developer will get caught very quickly.

But there is no law against making your own custom patches for it and sample those?

I don't read from the product description of BeatSkillz that they have ripped the patches directly.

[ras.s]

Re: sampling the D-50, I don't know if this has been discussed already in some other thread, but Roland has released their own sampled version of the D-50 (or that what it looks like based on the blurb), still in beta but available for subscription in the US:

https://www.rolandcloud.com/
https://www.rolandcloud.com/instruments ... ology-1987

[beely]

But there is no law against making your own custom patches for it and sample those?

Read my post above - yes there *is* a law against it, *if* your own custom patches *still* use the sound recordings (ie, PCM samples) that are not yours to use outside of the intended musical purpose (ie, creating songs using those sounds is fine, but creating a sample library for sale using those recordings is not).

[beely]

Re: sampling the D-50, I don't know if this has been discussed already in some other thread, but Roland has released their own sampled version of the D-50 (or that what it looks like based on the blurb), still in beta but available for subscription in the US:

Hmm, that's interesting, thanks for the headsup...

Also interesting is that they don't actually refer to the "D-50" at all in the blurb, they speak of it like it was made by another company, they just refer to it like "the iconic instrument from 1987". The do not mention "D-50" even once. Curious...

[bobhva]

It is an interesting product and at a reasonable price too. I just have sooooooo many plugins already that I have become very picky about adding new ones. I didn't really understand exactly what this was until you(Aryaroman) explained more about the product. It would be kind of cool having access to these sounds from those time periods for nostalgia sake, but I will pass on this since I have Synth Anthology II and several other VI's with presets that emulate them. BTW, their demo video sucks as it doesn't really give us much of a taste of these famous sounds.

[Numanoid]

But there is no law against making your own custom patches for it and sample those?

Read my post above - yes there *is* a law against it, *if* your own custom patches *still* use the sound recordings (ie, PCM samples) that are not yours to use outside of the intended musical purpose (ie, creating songs using those sounds is fine, but creating a sample library for sale using those recordings is not).

Well, it is not the case everywhere at least

In Germany I think it is allowed to do it. There was some kind of copyright case there in the past but the court ruled that patches can't be copyrighted

[ras.s]

Yea beely, I noticed that too, but it does appear to be legit.

From their about page: "Roland Virtual Sonics LLC. represents the joint venture between Roland Corporation and Seattle based Virtual Sonics."

Then there's this press release from Roland: https://www.roland.com/us/company/press_releases/30315/

It's some sort of licensing scheme, I suppose. Plus they rent the (definitely official) plugouts as well.

[Aryaroman]

Sampling the D-50 is a bad idea, the developer will get caught very quickly.

But there is no law against making your own custom patches for it and sample those?

I don't read from the product description of BeatSkillz that they have ripped the patches directly.

Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like they have. The concept of this product seems to be "Hey, let's sample these famous factory presets from these synths".

It is an interesting product and at a reasonable price too. I just have sooooooo many plugins already that I have become very picky about adding new ones. I didn't really understand exactly what this was until you(Aryaroman) explained more about the product. It would be kind of cool having access to these sounds from those time periods for nostalgia sake, but I will pass on this since I have Synth Anthology II and several other VI's with presets that emulate them. BTW, there demo video sucks as it doesn't really give us much of a taste of these famous sounds.

I'm glad I managed to make explain it! And though I'm somewhat intrigued by this product, I feel the same way as you, having so many plugins and yes... synth samples. But certainly, this might make a fun nostalgia-induced christmas gift to play around with, if nothing else.