Recreating Hey There Delilah with RealGuitar.

[Astrosky]

Hey there.

I'm using RealGuitar in order to attempt to recreate this simple song for practice.
I have looked into all the cords. So far i have only the first 5 secs or so but ALREADY it does not sound real enough or at least close enough to the original.


Listen to the first 5 secs or so




Then listen to mine
Here is mine
https://instaud.io/CC1

(btw i can't play guitar. I play piano)

[GeorgeZ]

It sounds fine. You won't be able to recreate it exactly. Two things: 1. guitar is a physically dynamic instrument, and imo a plugin will never properly capture nuances. 2. Tone heavily relies in the players strumming, strings, picks, vibrato speed and intensity and don't get me started regarding the recording space / studio and mic related stuff.

What ever you do, it'll always be an approximation of the original. Keep going and finish it, don't sweat the details too much

[dune_rave]

nice! I also use realguitar sometimes but I mainly try to make electronic music. So nuances don't bother me This year I tried to find a Kontakt based guitar tha can be measured to Realguitar,
but can't find one.

[Compyfox]

I'm using RealGuitar in order to attempt to recreate this simple song for practice.
I have looked into all the cords. So far i have only the first 5 secs or so but ALREADY it does not sound real enough or at least close enough to the original.

First and foremost - welcome to KVR. Then let's get started with your main issue, shall we?



My first question would be, which version of RealGuitar are you using? There have been fundamental changes to the engine from version 3 to version 4 that significantly improve the realism of your play.

Then the next question would be, which "Mode" are you using in the guitar? SOLO, BASS'n'CHORD or BASS'n'PICK (MIDI category)? This also has a huge influence on of your final results are.

And finally - which guitar did you use (Steel 1 or Steel 2)? Did you use Picked or Fingered play (steel 2 is only picked)? And at which position is the plectrum above the tone hole? (I can recommend positions like +3/towards bridge and -3/towards neck for starters).

Other than that, the general "tone" of the original recording has way more bass (an EQ was applied) and of course compression. But this comes down to general sound shaping and is actually necessary for this guitar VSTi (something that a lot of people overlook, and then say "it's sounding thing and fake").



Let us take a closer look at the production:


Ah, so the chord progression is:
D -- F#m -- Bm -- G -- A

And it's picked play with the root being the bass note, and only String 2 and 3 picked on the guitar (that would be the G and the B string). Praise Youtube tutorials!



Let's assume you've just fired up RealGuitar and didn't set up anything yet:
- select Acoustic:Steel Fingered
- go to MIDI->Bass'n'Pick
- if you want to trigger chords in silent and only work with the repetition keys, activate the "Silent Mode" (consult the manual for further info)

Now lay down the chord progression. Most of the time, RealGuitar selects the right chords out of the bat while using only one or two keys only - though please consult the manual as well on how the engine recognizes chords. I'd work within the A1 to B2 range for triggering chords

What you now do, is play with the repetition keys:
- C5 triggers your root bass note
- F5 triggers the 3rd string (from bottom) and G5 triggers the 2nd string (from bottom)
- you alternate between the root bass note (C5) and triggering both F5 and G5 together

This results in your rhythm.


Now how to improve this:
Depending on whether or not you've played live (or just programmed it - which would work just as fine), the velocity of the notes are important. Read up on the "velocity keyswitches" in that case.

Which brings me to the question which version of RealGuitar you have... if it's v4, you have access to the Humanize feature. Enable it with pressing on the square right beside the Humanize button. Then press the Humanize button itself to go more in-depth on settings.

SETTINGS:
- you can leave the pick position off, though for more "flavor", you can pull it down to 1 step and 30%
- Stroke and Strum time should ALWAYS be enabled IMO. Though to make things less sloppy, maybe reduce them in half (Stroke from 20ms to 10ms, and Strum from 30ms to 15ms) - or the other way around if you want things more loose and therefore less "machine like"
- ALL STROKES should be enabled as well - tweak to taste. This adds + or - to your played velocity. If you programmed things yourself (with one steady velocity), leave the settings as is
- ALL SOUNDS is just as important. No string swings the same way if you hit it several times in row. So leave this on, and maybe mess with the propability slider (from 50% to 65%)

Now things should suddenly sound more alive

If you want to add on to more "alternative note triggering"; just raise the ACCENT - ALT:2 setting to 4 or even 5. Now every time you play back the VSTi, things will sound completely different. I do recommend, after you're happy with your guitar play, to bounce out or freeze the guitar part.

You can also change how the guitar "behaves" in terms of attack noise, fret noise and the like. Go to the top right of your GUI, select MIXER and then mess with FRET, RELEASE and PICK. Though I do recommend to move down the fret noise to -6 or turn it off completely (it can be triggered manually with a new instance, the DIRECT MODE and MIDI CH16), and maybe play around with the RELEASE and PICK (basically the higher the value, the stronger the attack sound) noise until you're satisfied. Personally I turn down FRET to -6dB, RELEASE remains at 0, and PICK is for adding more or less attack sound (for the E-Guitars of the Musiclab guitars, I pull it down by a couple of dB).



NEXT - Sound Shaping.
- I'd move the plectrum to position -2 to -4
- then add an EQ to your guitar. I do recommend to focus on the frequencies between 120Hz and 320Hz, and also around 4,7kHz - don't forget to cut the mids as well (if desired)
- compression wise, start with something that has medium speed (thing 15-30ms attack) and 150-200ms release. Compress with about 3-5dB gain reduction. Tweak to taste



This should definitely get you closer to what you're aiming for, and you learned how to use the re-trigger keys in combination with the Bass'n'Pick mode in RealGuitar



You're welcome -

[Bodhisan]

I think it sounds really good - but if you want it to sound more like the original, turn down/off the reverb - the original is quite dry.

[Astrosky]

I'm using RealGuitar in order to attempt to recreate this simple song for practice.
I have looked into all the cords. So far i have only the first 5 secs or so but ALREADY it does not sound real enough or at least close enough to the original.

First and foremost - welcome to KVR. Then let's get started with your main issue, shall we?



My first question would be, which version of RealGuitar are you using? There have been fundamental changes to the engine from version 3 to version 4 that significantly improve the realism of your play.

Then the next question would be, which "Mode" are you using in the guitar? SOLO, BASS'n'CHORD or BASS'n'PICK (MIDI category)? This also has a huge influence on of your final results are.

And finally - which guitar did you use (Steel 1 or Steel 2)? Did you use Picked or Fingered play (steel 2 is only picked)? And at which position is the plectrum above the tone hole? (I can recommend positions like +3/towards bridge and -3/towards neck for starters).

Other than that, the general "tone" of the original recording has way more bass (an EQ was applied) and of course compression. But this comes down to general sound shaping and is actually necessary for this guitar VSTi (something that a lot of people overlook, and then say "it's sounding thing and fake").



Let us take a closer look at the production:


Ah, so the chord progression is:
D -- F#m -- Bm -- G -- A

And it's picked play with the root being the bass note, and only String 2 and 3 picked on the guitar (that would be the G and the B string). Praise Youtube tutorials!



Let's assume you've just fired up RealGuitar and didn't set up anything yet:
- select Acoustic:Steel Fingered
- go to MIDI->Bass'n'Pick
- if you want to trigger chords in silent and only work with the repetition keys, activate the "Silent Mode" (consult the manual for further info)

Now lay down the chord progression. Most of the time, RealGuitar selects the right chords out of the bat while using only one or two keys only - though please consult the manual as well on how the engine recognizes chords. I'd work within the A1 to B2 range for triggering chords

What you now do, is play with the repetition keys:
- C5 triggers your root bass note
- F5 triggers the 3rd string (from bottom) and G5 triggers the 2nd string (from bottom)
- you alternate between the root bass note (C5) and triggering both F5 and G5 together

This results in your rhythm.


Now how to improve this:
Depending on whether or not you've played live (or just programmed it - which would work just as fine), the velocity of the notes are important. Read up on the "velocity keyswitches" in that case.

Which brings me to the question which version of RealGuitar you have... if it's v4, you have access to the Humanize feature. Enable it with pressing on the square right beside the Humanize button. Then press the Humanize button itself to go more in-depth on settings.

SETTINGS:
- you can leave the pick position off, though for more "flavor", you can pull it down to 1 step and 30%
- Stroke and Strum time should ALWAYS be enabled IMO. Though to make things less sloppy, maybe reduce them in half (Stroke from 20ms to 10ms, and Strum from 30ms to 15ms) - or the other way around if you want things more loose and therefore less "machine like"
- ALL STROKES should be enabled as well - tweak to taste. This adds + or - to your played velocity. If you programmed things yourself (with one steady velocity), leave the settings as is
- ALL SOUNDS is just as important. No string swings the same way if you hit it several times in row. So leave this on, and maybe mess with the propability slider (from 50% to 65%)

Now things should suddenly sound more alive

If you want to add on to more "alternative note triggering"; just raise the ACCENT - ALT:2 setting to 4 or even 5. Now every time you play back the VSTi, things will sound completely different. I do recommend, after you're happy with your guitar play, to bounce out or freeze the guitar part.

You can also change how the guitar "behaves" in terms of attack noise, fret noise and the like. Go to the top right of your GUI, select MIXER and then mess with FRET, RELEASE and PICK. Though I do recommend to move down the fret noise to -6 or turn it off completely (it can be triggered manually with a new instance, the DIRECT MODE and MIDI CH16), and maybe play around with the RELEASE and PICK (basically the higher the value, the stronger the attack sound) noise until you're satisfied. Personally I turn down FRET to -6dB, RELEASE remains at 0, and PICK is for adding more or less attack sound (for the E-Guitars of the Musiclab guitars, I pull it down by a couple of dB).



NEXT - Sound Shaping.
- I'd move the plectrum to position -2 to -4
- then add an EQ to your guitar. I do recommend to focus on the frequencies between 120Hz and 320Hz, and also around 4,7kHz - don't forget to cut the mids as well (if desired)
- compression wise, start with something that has medium speed (thing 15-30ms attack) and 150-200ms release. Compress with about 3-5dB gain reduction. Tweak to taste



This should definitely get you closer to what you're aiming for, and you learned how to use the re-trigger keys in combination with the Bass'n'Pick mode in RealGuitar



You're welcome -

Thanks for that. I sadly have realguitar 3 only. I can't afford 4 just yet. But i think there is still a way to humanize it still right?


So far i have been using solo mode. I will take your tips all the way.

[UltimateOutsider]

Damn, Compyfox is on the case!

[Compyfox]

Damn, Compyfox is on the case!

I'm using Musiclab Tools since v1, gave a lot of feedback on further improvements, etc. I also wrote a couple of comments on getting the best out of the Electric-type guitars in my KVR Marks (here - the EQ setting, an additional LPF, and the right pedal chain is essential for a good tone!)

So, yeah...

Thanks for that. I sadly have realguitar 3 only. I can't afford 4 just yet.

Can't tell you what the upgrade prices are - I'm on the most recent engines for all guitars.

But i think there is still a way to humanize it still right?

Somewhat... yes. But it won't be the same as the new Humanize mode.


You have two options:

OPTION 1: The Struminator Technology (Joystick Mode)
A lot of people don't know this: the Joystick mode can be triggered via MIDI as well! For beginners, that's a super simple entry way to play the guitar engine - and it comes with a simplified Humanize feature (check the cogwheel in this mode). Plus, playing the "Joystick Mode" via a Keyboard has the added bonus of an even higher velocity range. They keys for that are in the higher octaves I think around C7 and up - it should be documented in the manual.

Use the Joystick Mode -> Color Tab -> Left hand side "Picking".

Now this is where it gets a bit complicated, as this heavily relies on presets given. Down strum is the base note of the chord you triggered via "colored buttons" (again, please consult the manual - or check the button layout of a Guitar Hero 1-6/RockBand 1-4 controller), up strum goes by the selected sequence. Definitely more on that in the manual.

What you can do however, is edit the TXT file with the Sequences. Called "Sequences.txt" (up until this day, I do not know if we can create Sequences2.txt or Sequences3.txt - never tried it, but filed a FR years ago). Just add this sequence in a new line and you should be good to go: B1-[3+2]

This triggers B1 with the first upstroke (the first bass note, or the root bass of the selected chord), and then String 3+2 on the second upstroke.

The chords are triggered via the color buttons, which correspond to white keys somewhere above C7. Again, please look into the manual for that.



OPTION 2: your host
If you have a host that offers "MIDI modifiers" (I'm using Cubase, I have a drop-down panel for that), modify the offset of the MIDI notes being played in positive values only. The velocity can be randomized +/-15.

What you can not do is "micro tuning" like the Humanize feature would do with RealGuitar v4.

So far i have been using solo mode. I will take your tips all the way.

Solo Mode is not really great for that. It does come with Interval key switches and way better control over palm mutes and what have you. But compared to the super-simplified chord modes, it's night and day that you can hear.

The engine is in constant flux - this has been improved upon with "Engine 4" and I'm sure it will be further improved upon whenever Engine 4.2 or higher hits.

[Astrosky]

Man WHOOOOA way over my head. I guess it would be simpler to just play this on guitar but then again i like a challenge.

Ill look into this

[Compyfox]

Use the MIDI > Bass'n'Pick mode then and check if you Host has MIDI modifiers.

Or... invest in RG-ACv4, which has the Humanize feature built in


I'm using the RealGuitars for so long, I know their odds and ends

[Astrosky]

One more question.

This is kinda off topic but i use Reaper.

I use it on my core i3 laptop and it's plenty fast for what i do.

But i have this dedicated mini windows pc called the PIPO X7 it has a Intel Atom Z3736F quad core.

I just want to know would it be decent enough to run reaper ? or would it be way to slow for what i want to do with it.

[Compyfox]

Sorry, I'm no Reaper user, can't answer that question

[Astrosky]

Sorry, I'm no Reaper user, can't answer that question

alright man thanks.

But on to that lONGG post you kindly made for me.

You talk about the bass and pick mode and i have that opened with the settings you suggest. You tell me to lay down the "cords" where do i lay down the cords lol? im very new at this

I have it open as i type. I saw USER cords but im confused on what to do. Do i lay D -- F#m -- Bm -- G -- A on there? One at a time? Not only that but the guitar only plays low notes now and the only note i can play with the highlighted keys is D and one other d with the dark keys at the very right now. DO i play it like i would Solo mode?

[Astrosky]

I think i might need to learn this vst more.

[Musical Gym]

Version 4 has song mode and chord wheel; definitely worth an upgrade if you can afford it.