How professional can a sound get with iOS alone?
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
The sad thing is, that Windows actually is the most professional platform. If i was serious about making music, i'd built myself a dual cpu workstation with 8-cores each, an ultimate Audio DSP card, an RME audio card etc etc.
Macs can suck it for music production. Only thing good is the operating system.
Macs can suck it for music production. Only thing good is the operating system.
-
- KVRAF
- 5201 posts since 16 Nov, 2014
If i wouldn´t use Logic and liking iOS plus the easy connect with my mac i would buy a 2-1 hybrid. Maybe i would do if there was a good 15-17" touch screen with quadcore .DayvanCowboy wrote:The sad thing is, that Windows actually is the most professional platform. If i was serious about making music, i'd built myself a dual cpu workstation with 8-cores each, an ultimate Audio DSP card, an RME audio card etc etc.
Macs can suck it for music production. Only thing good is the operating system.
The new macbooks are not of interest for me and the prices are beyond good and evil.
But i´m still interested to see what Apple do next with iPad Pro 12.9" and what Microsoft offers with the Surface 5.
But devices like the Razor Blade Stealth or Asus Transformer 3 Pro looks also interesting.
I never used windows for music, so i can´t say if that is better or not.
I have an older windows laptop with windows 10 on it now but i don´t like it.
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
Logic is fine, but there are so many other fine cross platform DAWs that it doesn't matter at all. Since we already established in this thread, that CPU power is everything, Macs have become a joke in the last years. In the good days up until 2010, there was the Mac Pro and everyone was happy.
So, to mock Windows is actually pretty stupid, when you can have 5 times the performance of a mac on the windows platform, with the right hardware. You can have 24 cores at high clockspeeds plus DSP cards. It runs circles around the Mac "Pro". You can also integrate touchscreen displays if you want to...
It would run 10 instances of DIVA on divine @ 192 khz 32 bit which would guarantee an instant eargasm as soon as you press a key...
So, to mock Windows is actually pretty stupid, when you can have 5 times the performance of a mac on the windows platform, with the right hardware. You can have 24 cores at high clockspeeds plus DSP cards. It runs circles around the Mac "Pro". You can also integrate touchscreen displays if you want to...
It would run 10 instances of DIVA on divine @ 192 khz 32 bit which would guarantee an instant eargasm as soon as you press a key...
-
- KVRAF
- 5201 posts since 16 Nov, 2014
I agree....like i said iOS is the focus for Apple and especially the iPhones. I even would bet that macOS is pretty dead in a few years when iOS get the full X-code.DayvanCowboy wrote:Logic is fine, but there are so many other fine cross platform DAWs that it doesn't matter at all. Since we already established in this thread, that CPU power is everything, Macs have become a joke in the last years. In the good days up until 2010, there was the Mac Pro and everyone was happy.
So, to mock Windows is actually pretty stupid, when you can have 5 times the performance of a mac on the windows platform, with the right hardware. You can have 24 cores at high clockspeeds plus DSP cards. It runs circles around the Mac "Pro". You can also integrate touchscreen displays if you want to...
It would run 10 instances of DIVA on divine @ 192 khz 32 bit which would guarantee an instant eargasm as soon as you press a key...
But for multi-touch it is the best thing on earth still.
How often i try to touch the knobs and sliders on my plug-ins on my Macbook Pro....but it doesn´t work
About Logic....since i really love the workflow, Sculpture, Alchemy 2 etc.and tryed most of the other BIG DAW´s i couldn´t live without it yet. And it is the biggest bang for buck too.
-
- KVRist
- 288 posts since 29 May, 2012
Personally, I find Windows a very useful platform for writing spreadsheets and using as a render farm (which I suppose isn't really "Windows" as it's headless.
There was a time when I swore I would never use a Mac. Then I tried one. And I hated it. Then I tried it again after OS X 10.6 - It's the only computer I use now. It's never had the latency problems or required a kludgy work around like ASIO or any of those other things. Windows isn't (wasn't? It's been years) capable of keep accurate time. Not to mention the visual differences. DPI on an old Mac was 96. it was 72 on an old Windows machine. The new Macs have a DPI of 218. The new Windows machines have a DPI of 72. It helps with interface when you can actually read the buttons.
Now, specifically regarding "professional sound" from IOS vs Mac vs PC. It depends on what one calls "professional." It depends on what kind of amplifier one is using. It depends on whether the sound is being performed live or pre-recorded. There's no ONE DEFINITIVE answer. A cheap guitar passed through 5 different pedals into a mixing board with FX can sound as "professional" as a $5000 Martin with a good Neumann Mic - providing the speakers are good.
Do any of them (whether through IOS, Mac or Windows) sound as good as 128 professional un-mic'd musicians? probably not. It also depends on the type of music you're playing. Hip Hop and Genres with LOUDER and LOUDEST sounds which always run at peak levels are a different kettle of fish than chamber music.
Perhaps a more specific question would yield a more specific answer. However, I have recorded, Solely on IOS, songs that "sound" to my "imperfect" ears the same as when played as a midi file via a Mac or Windows. Just (for the time being) stay away from Android and its mack-truck latency.
As I do more with my computers than ONLY music, I need to make allowances for the other applications I use - since it's mostly graphic in nature, a 5K monitor @ 218dpi is just far easier to work with than a 2K @72 (doubled to 144 if I can deal with the scanline jitter, as the PC is almost 6 years old - so simply NOT worth it for me YMMV).
There was a time when I swore I would never use a Mac. Then I tried one. And I hated it. Then I tried it again after OS X 10.6 - It's the only computer I use now. It's never had the latency problems or required a kludgy work around like ASIO or any of those other things. Windows isn't (wasn't? It's been years) capable of keep accurate time. Not to mention the visual differences. DPI on an old Mac was 96. it was 72 on an old Windows machine. The new Macs have a DPI of 218. The new Windows machines have a DPI of 72. It helps with interface when you can actually read the buttons.
Now, specifically regarding "professional sound" from IOS vs Mac vs PC. It depends on what one calls "professional." It depends on what kind of amplifier one is using. It depends on whether the sound is being performed live or pre-recorded. There's no ONE DEFINITIVE answer. A cheap guitar passed through 5 different pedals into a mixing board with FX can sound as "professional" as a $5000 Martin with a good Neumann Mic - providing the speakers are good.
Do any of them (whether through IOS, Mac or Windows) sound as good as 128 professional un-mic'd musicians? probably not. It also depends on the type of music you're playing. Hip Hop and Genres with LOUDER and LOUDEST sounds which always run at peak levels are a different kettle of fish than chamber music.
Perhaps a more specific question would yield a more specific answer. However, I have recorded, Solely on IOS, songs that "sound" to my "imperfect" ears the same as when played as a midi file via a Mac or Windows. Just (for the time being) stay away from Android and its mack-truck latency.
As I do more with my computers than ONLY music, I need to make allowances for the other applications I use - since it's mostly graphic in nature, a 5K monitor @ 218dpi is just far easier to work with than a 2K @72 (doubled to 144 if I can deal with the scanline jitter, as the PC is almost 6 years old - so simply NOT worth it for me YMMV).
-
- KVRAF
- 2547 posts since 15 Jan, 2013 from L'Écosse
You can have both with Bootcamp.chk071 wrote:IMO, iOS is not professional enough. Go at least MacOS, or rather, the most professional one, Windows.
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
CPU power directly translates into sonic capabilities, that´s just a fact.
Modern macs suck in that regard, since the Mac Pro is GPU-heavy, which are totally useless for audio production. Mass storage solutions via Thunderbolt are also much more expensive and less efficient than internal SSDs, either via SATA or PCIex for extreme performance.
The dpi thing doesn´t make any sense, since there are high resolution displays available, like the 40" 4k screen i´m using. Windows 10 scales great with HiDpi Displays, it´s a matter of the individual application how it scales with HiDpi. Mac OS has a longer history of supporting HiDpi (Retina) Displays, so there are more apps developed for HiDpi.
It has nothing to do with the operating system any more.
I´m not a professional musician, but an IT-consultant. The mac as a platform for professional musicians died with the old (silver) Mac Pro. Apple just didn´t care anymore, because they were selling idevices like cupcakes. If you´re relying on an iMac, it just means you´re too lazy to figure out the few quirks that come with windows, and sacrifice enormous sonic capability. You may be a professional, but certainly not a very good one.
Modern macs suck in that regard, since the Mac Pro is GPU-heavy, which are totally useless for audio production. Mass storage solutions via Thunderbolt are also much more expensive and less efficient than internal SSDs, either via SATA or PCIex for extreme performance.
The dpi thing doesn´t make any sense, since there are high resolution displays available, like the 40" 4k screen i´m using. Windows 10 scales great with HiDpi Displays, it´s a matter of the individual application how it scales with HiDpi. Mac OS has a longer history of supporting HiDpi (Retina) Displays, so there are more apps developed for HiDpi.
It has nothing to do with the operating system any more.
I´m not a professional musician, but an IT-consultant. The mac as a platform for professional musicians died with the old (silver) Mac Pro. Apple just didn´t care anymore, because they were selling idevices like cupcakes. If you´re relying on an iMac, it just means you´re too lazy to figure out the few quirks that come with windows, and sacrifice enormous sonic capability. You may be a professional, but certainly not a very good one.
-
- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
With apologies: This really has nothing to do with the op's question, but does open up a Pandora's box of speculation in the context of this thread's current conversation vector - I see the news that I'm sharing below as good, because i wouldn't be surprised at all if true-blue unix elements find their way into the heart of Windows:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/16/micro ... oundation/
Motives(?) [mobile phone optimized link]
http://www.themobileupdates.com/news/mi ... -software/
Somewhat back on-topic: iwavestation seems to be *very* well-behaved - I'm seeing less then 45% CPU usage under any and all conditions running on an Air 1 - including 8-note polyphony/(4) layers stacked -
And it sounds as it should - the interface for editing is far superior to the hardware original - bravo, Korg! Certainly of professional quality from what I've seen so far, but obviously time will tell -
25 bucks for the app & a significant add-on -
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/16/micro ... oundation/
Motives(?) [mobile phone optimized link]
http://www.themobileupdates.com/news/mi ... -software/
Somewhat back on-topic: iwavestation seems to be *very* well-behaved - I'm seeing less then 45% CPU usage under any and all conditions running on an Air 1 - including 8-note polyphony/(4) layers stacked -
And it sounds as it should - the interface for editing is far superior to the hardware original - bravo, Korg! Certainly of professional quality from what I've seen so far, but obviously time will tell -
25 bucks for the app & a significant add-on -
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
Thx for sharing! Was curious, if there were any audible differences to the hardware. I´m refusing to buy the IAP so far because i´m hopelessly lost with the waveforms that are included. Guess i´ll have to just learn which wave is on what card...goldenanalog wrote:
And it sounds as it should - the interface for editing is far superior to the hardware original - bravo, Korg! Certainly of professional quality from what I've seen so far, but obviously time will tell -
25 bucks for the app & a significant add-on -
I´m not autistic...I just love the sound of the app! Rich, textured, detailed, dynamic...It´s the best showcase for iOS yet, and legitimizes the platform further, as a professional grade soundtool.
Amazing that Korg releases an unbelievable virtual analog synth and an even more unbelievable digital synth in the span of one month. iWavestation reached second place of all paid apps today and is currently on fice, behind Minecraft etc...
-
- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
You're always welcome, DayvanCowboy!
This is so cool:
'The sound of the Wavestation is familiar to users of the Apple Macintosh, since the startup chime that has featured on every Mac from the Quadra 700 to the Quadra 800 was created by Jim Reekes on a Korg Wavestation.[29] Reekes said, "The startup sound was done in my home studio on a Korg Wavestation. It's a C Major chord, played with both hands stretched out as wide as possible (with 3rd at the top, if I recall)." The sound in question is a slightly modified "Sandman" factory preset.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_Wavestation
I owned a Wavestation EX for several years - this $25 app imho exceeds it substantially, especially with editing and added waveforms -
It's fascinating to think that it contains the original waveforms of the Prophet VS - I believe to be the last work to come out of SCI (along with the Prophet 3000) before they went away for a while -
Anyway: This iPad beasts' interface begs for interaction - I'm also going to reinstall the Wavestation legacy on a laptop and work on some patch swapping using iTunes to (hopefully) really get a handle on it -
It sounds like my Wavestation as I remember it - but the iwavestation is clearly a reinvention.
This is so cool:
'The sound of the Wavestation is familiar to users of the Apple Macintosh, since the startup chime that has featured on every Mac from the Quadra 700 to the Quadra 800 was created by Jim Reekes on a Korg Wavestation.[29] Reekes said, "The startup sound was done in my home studio on a Korg Wavestation. It's a C Major chord, played with both hands stretched out as wide as possible (with 3rd at the top, if I recall)." The sound in question is a slightly modified "Sandman" factory preset.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_Wavestation
I owned a Wavestation EX for several years - this $25 app imho exceeds it substantially, especially with editing and added waveforms -
It's fascinating to think that it contains the original waveforms of the Prophet VS - I believe to be the last work to come out of SCI (along with the Prophet 3000) before they went away for a while -
Anyway: This iPad beasts' interface begs for interaction - I'm also going to reinstall the Wavestation legacy on a laptop and work on some patch swapping using iTunes to (hopefully) really get a handle on it -
It sounds like my Wavestation as I remember it - but the iwavestation is clearly a reinvention.
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
Yea i´ve read that too, since i became fascinated with the synth and its history. That might be one of the most heard sounds of all time, behind some Nokia and iPhone ringtones 
The GUI on iWavestation is great, after a few hours you really "get" the synth and the structure. Now it appears like a bottomless pit of possible sounds to me!
What i am curious about is, how the iWavestation compares to the (i)M1. It looks like, the iWavestation does everything the iM1 does, with a much more advanced synthesis engine. I´ve found a thread from 1996 (!) where the topic is discussed, then the sequencer of the M1 was a significant factor, which it isn´t today. Do you know any area, where the (i)M1 shines?
The GUI on iWavestation is great, after a few hours you really "get" the synth and the structure. Now it appears like a bottomless pit of possible sounds to me!
What i am curious about is, how the iWavestation compares to the (i)M1. It looks like, the iWavestation does everything the iM1 does, with a much more advanced synthesis engine. I´ve found a thread from 1996 (!) where the topic is discussed, then the sequencer of the M1 was a significant factor, which it isn´t today. Do you know any area, where the (i)M1 shines?
-
- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 7 Dec, 2005
The iM1 is a straight-up sample-playback synth with the addition of resonant filters - You could say that it's strength lies in the total amount of sounds that you have available to you - plenty with an identifiable character, when the M1 and T1 were contemporary (like: 'Universe' as one example)
Because it's a simpler platform, you can easily stack several sounds and still have decent polyphony on a later model iPad.
You could, of course, somewhat mimic 'sound evolution' by staggering iM1 ADSR envelope values for each of the layers -
- The Wavestation is fundamentally different: it works similarly in some ways to a Wavesequencing synthesizer like the PPG - but it cross-fades between several waveforms/pcm samples as opposed to playing audio 'filmstrips' of waveforms in sequence, which is what the PPG does -
Both the M1 and Wavestation can sound similiar dependent on the sources of sounds used - and they do originate from roughly the same era w/similiar sound sourcing - but the Wavestation has a *far* more manipulate sound engine then the M1 - it's called a vector synth because you can have both direction & velocity (time of travel) manually done and automated in great detail between different waveforms and samples.
That's probably an inadequate answer to your question, DayvanCowboy - calling the M1 a sample-playback keyboard, I guess that if I were to describe the overall Wavestation experience in simplest terms, it would be: 'motion sounds' or: 'evolving sounds' -
With the Wavestation: you can potentially do quite a bit with a well-programned sound and just one finger holding a key down -
Then again: There's really no equivalent synth in the iPad ecosystem that has all the pieces so together the way that iM1 does - ikmultimedia has an amazing assortment of instruments to be fair; but iM1 is just so refined -
Because it's a simpler platform, you can easily stack several sounds and still have decent polyphony on a later model iPad.
You could, of course, somewhat mimic 'sound evolution' by staggering iM1 ADSR envelope values for each of the layers -
- The Wavestation is fundamentally different: it works similarly in some ways to a Wavesequencing synthesizer like the PPG - but it cross-fades between several waveforms/pcm samples as opposed to playing audio 'filmstrips' of waveforms in sequence, which is what the PPG does -
Both the M1 and Wavestation can sound similiar dependent on the sources of sounds used - and they do originate from roughly the same era w/similiar sound sourcing - but the Wavestation has a *far* more manipulate sound engine then the M1 - it's called a vector synth because you can have both direction & velocity (time of travel) manually done and automated in great detail between different waveforms and samples.
That's probably an inadequate answer to your question, DayvanCowboy - calling the M1 a sample-playback keyboard, I guess that if I were to describe the overall Wavestation experience in simplest terms, it would be: 'motion sounds' or: 'evolving sounds' -
With the Wavestation: you can potentially do quite a bit with a well-programned sound and just one finger holding a key down -
Then again: There's really no equivalent synth in the iPad ecosystem that has all the pieces so together the way that iM1 does - ikmultimedia has an amazing assortment of instruments to be fair; but iM1 is just so refined -
-
- KVRist
- 69 posts since 11 Apr, 2016
Thx for taking the time and the great answer! It confirmed, what i already assumed. I just bought the iM1 on Black Friday, and really liked it, especially the string sounds. Yet, with the iWavestation it seems a little redundant. I feel like the iM1 is just like the iWavestation on a very basic patch. I´m sure there are subtle differences in the sounds, but it would take me a long time to figure them out! Will be rough enough to memorize all the cards with all the waves on them on one synth, doing it on two synths that are quite similar is too much :O
Just refunded the iM1, moar money for Klevgrand plugins
Just refunded the iM1, moar money for Klevgrand plugins