Polyrhythms/Cross Rhythms
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- KVRian
- 513 posts since 26 Nov, 2009
How to calculate the tempo of the polyrhythms?
Garage house tracks are around 130 bpm, but they are using sextuplets. How to calculate the tempo of similar track, if we produce it in 6/4 (not every daw has sextuplets), so it should be around 130? We need to change the tempo, if we want to modulate 4x4 straight rhythm to sextuplet without losing the pulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHqIldyJyc
Garage house tracks are around 130 bpm, but they are using sextuplets. How to calculate the tempo of similar track, if we produce it in 6/4 (not every daw has sextuplets), so it should be around 130? We need to change the tempo, if we want to modulate 4x4 straight rhythm to sextuplet without losing the pulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHqIldyJyc
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
Sextuplets are not similar to the sub-division of a 6/4 bar. A six four bar is usually divided in two tempos, and each tempo has three quarter notes - similar to 6/8. In 6/4 the tempo is marked at the dotted half note, therefore, you have 1-2-3 - 1-2-3 sub-division. In a sextuplet, you have 6 in the time of four (for example six sixteen notes in the time of four). I can't see why wouldn't any bar be able to make this. AFAIK, any DAW can make this, although maybe not notate it correctly, if that's what you mean.anomandaris1 wrote:How to calculate the tempo of the polyrhythms?
Garage house tracks are around 130 bpm, but they are using sextuplets. How to calculate the tempo of similar track, if we produce it in 6/4 (not every daw has sextuplets), so it should be around 130? We need to change the tempo, if we want to modulate 4x4 straight rhythm to sextuplet without losing the pulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHqIldyJyc
But if you want to go through the path of 6/4, then yeah, you just have to mark the tempo in two tempos per bar, and the tempo unit would the the dotted half-note.
Bear in mind these are not poly-rhythms, just tuplets. Unless you also have the regular four time-division in another voice/instrument. In that case, you would have cross-rhythm (but still not poly-rhythm).
Fernando (FMR)
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Articulated as you have indicated there will tend to be an emphasis on 1 & 3 of your 4/4.
The way musicians do it is we can just play triplets, rather than need the 'DAW' to do it.
But in terms of pure mechanics 6 in the time of 4, 6 is 50% faster than 4 isn't it.
The way musicians do it is we can just play triplets, rather than need the 'DAW' to do it.
But in terms of pure mechanics 6 in the time of 4, 6 is 50% faster than 4 isn't it.
Last edited by jancivil on Mon May 01, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 1000 posts since 1 Dec, 2004
I'm pretty sure those are just triplets. And every DAW has triplets, you just have to change the grid snap step, or move notes off the grid (in Fruity Loops), or use note delay (in Renoise and Modplug Tracker).anomandaris1 wrote:How to calculate the tempo of the polyrhythms?
Garage house tracks are around 130 bpm, but they are using sextuplets. How to calculate the tempo of similar track, if we produce it in 6/4 (not every daw has sextuplets), so it should be around 130? We need to change the tempo, if we want to modulate 4x4 straight rhythm to sextuplet without losing the pulse.
http://tinyurl.com/h4dqugt
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Right. Sextuplets are not the same as 6/4 as articulated in the OP.fmr wrote:Sextuplets are not similar to the sub-division of a 6/4 bar. A six four bar is usually divided in two tempos, and each tempo has three quarter notes - similar to 6/8. In 6/4 the tempo is marked at the dotted half note, therefore, you have 1-2-3 - 1-2-3 sub-division. In a sextuplet, you have 6 in the time of four (for example six sixteen notes in the time of four). I can't see why wouldn't any bar be able to make this. AFAIK, any DAW can make this, although maybe not notate it correctly, if that's what you mean.anomandaris1 wrote:How to calculate the tempo of the polyrhythms?
Garage house tracks are around 130 bpm, but they are using sextuplets. How to calculate the tempo of similar track, if we produce it in 6/4 (not every daw has sextuplets), so it should be around 130? We need to change the tempo, if we want to modulate 4x4 straight rhythm to sextuplet without losing the pulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHqIldyJyc
Now, 6/4 may be typically conceptualized as two dotted half notes but as a compound time signature we have the possibility of it coming across the same as two bars of 3/4 as well. So we can - and there is quite some music to do this going back a long ways - move back and forth between the two perspectives. (Hemiola)
The 'three' emphasis where we were led to feel the 'two' emphasis is not different than triplets vs duplets in the end. So they might be similar. Technically, in the DAW mechanically, we have to know the differences of course.
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- KVRian
- 880 posts since 26 Oct, 2011
I haven't read all the responses to this thread but just a small tip if you wish to experiment with polyrhythms: easiest way (imo) to play with polyrhythms is by mixing 3/4 with 4/4.
As an example: https://youtu.be/ZBCFMyPWdhw?t=47
From that point on, the beat soon begins. Yeah, it's dubstep, but I'd say you can call it a polyrhythm. The snare goes as it usually does: every third beat out of four and on the first beat you (usually) have a kick, so we could speak of 4/4. But the kick pattern dips a lot into 6/4 territory as well.
I'm not sure if you'd really want to call this a polyrhythm, but I think the term still does apply here. It's obviously not as exciting as nearly any other possibility, but it is a starting point without going too much into experimental realm. Problem with calling it a polyrhythm (I'd guess) is that it still gives a very, very strong sensation of 4/4 rather than 6/4. If you'd have to pick one, it still would always be 4/4 and you'd just consider those other notes as triplets.
As an example: https://youtu.be/ZBCFMyPWdhw?t=47
From that point on, the beat soon begins. Yeah, it's dubstep, but I'd say you can call it a polyrhythm. The snare goes as it usually does: every third beat out of four and on the first beat you (usually) have a kick, so we could speak of 4/4. But the kick pattern dips a lot into 6/4 territory as well.
I'm not sure if you'd really want to call this a polyrhythm, but I think the term still does apply here. It's obviously not as exciting as nearly any other possibility, but it is a starting point without going too much into experimental realm. Problem with calling it a polyrhythm (I'd guess) is that it still gives a very, very strong sensation of 4/4 rather than 6/4. If you'd have to pick one, it still would always be 4/4 and you'd just consider those other notes as triplets.
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- KVRist
- 78 posts since 21 Jan, 2018 from Sydney, Australia
There's a great max4live (if you're on Ableton) device called polyrhymus. Basically it has 6 (I think) independent step sequencer lines (with adjustable pitch, velocity and length). You can assign a different time signature to each individual line. For example, one rhythm in 3/4 playing over another rhythm in 4/4. It's great. Highly recommended.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville