KVR Audio

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:42 pm

Something is odd with the knob scaling, I have the formant knob dialed towards the left by 31,3%, now I assign the modulation wheel to the formant knob and add 31,3% in the mod matrix numerically, but that doesn't reset the formant knob to zero, but it goes way beyond the 0 value, that can't be right.

vanhaze · Post by **vanhaze** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:44 pm

Here we go again:

Also the demo version should not been released in it's current buggy state.
Dev should have taken way more time to do proper testing before releasing Avenger, be it as demo or as commercial version.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:45 pm

vanhaze wrote:
emtear wrote:Can somebody please explain why everyone keeps purchasing this synth if it contains all these so called "beta" bugs?

The developer keeps saying that there is very few support tkts from people outside this forum. Following this tread and being one of the few that seem to be waiting until everything is fixed or updated before I purchase, I can not see why everyone here feels so compeled to purchase.

For me there is too much focus on this plugin looking good and not crossing features that overlap with the developers other plugins. Focus and energy being spent in areas that don't really matter for the end result which is sound and being able to produce sound, any sound quickly and intuitively.

But then again everyone keeps saying they bought it like this is this is the last plugin they will ever use. Seems like the developer would be more motivated if sales were down rather then everyone purchasing for whatever reason an then complaining.
Very simple:
A product that seems to behave so buggy and problematic for alot of people should never been offered for sale in the first place.

Rob, I get what you're saying but here's the thing. In the month that I tested this synth, I had one crash. I had 3 bugs, all of which were fixed. I am now running this without issue on 1.0.20 which was even before the final release which should have been even more stable.

Look, I am the first person to dump on a synth. When I downloaded the demo for AIR Loom and it crashed my DAW so badly that I had to reinstall it, I never purchased it and will never purchase an AIR product because of it. I test every plug before I buy it and if it gives me any problems at all, it's gone. It's not even a consideration EVER.

So for me to have bought Avenger on the very first day it was up for sale, you have to know that, at least for me, it was rock solid. And I am sure for every other demo tester it was rock solid as well.

Therefor, with all these people reporting that everything is okay, what was the dev supposed to do? Insist that there had to be something wrong in spite of all evidence to the contrary and NOT sell it?

If there were no bugs and testing showed the synth for what it really was as far as stability...

1) How stupid would the dev have looked for not releasing it?

2) How angry would the buying public be not being able to get their hands on it?

So tell me, just how much more testing were we supposed to do on this thing (given nothing major was coming up) before we gave the dev the green light to release it? A week? A month? A year?

Tell me Rob, how long when nothing was coming up warranting a delay of the release?

When and if you can come up with a logical rebuttal, based on the evidence given, I'm all ears.

Ryan99 · Post by **Ryan99** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:54 pm

I did what everyone here that complains should have done. I tried the demo first and still playing with it. After trying it many times, I don't report a single problem. So, on my system, it's good to go and ready for release on my PC. That's why I'm gonna buy it, I totally love this synth.

Warehouseparty · Post by **Warehouseparty** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:54 pm

emtear wrote:Can somebody please explain why everyone keeps purchasing this synth if it contains all these so called "beta" bugs?

I am not so sure if there are "all these" bugs or "just some" bugs. Nobody except the DEV knows how good this piece of software is selling. As well nobody knows how many people do experience what kind of issues - except DEV again. But still DEV doesn't know about everything i guess because if it's no major bug many people won't report.

We know about 160(!) pages in this forum, as well as 28 pages on the DEVs forum. I've been reading every single post and still there are not to many (different) people/customers complaning. I guess it is something between 10 to 20.

So it can't be that bad.

I decided to make it a day 1 buy without trying after the excellent tutorial videos, but hesitated after reading about those problems people are/were having. So I tried the demo and it worked fine for me. So why shouldn't I buy?

Still I see some things could be improved. And since this product is software I will be mentioning those things. Good thing about software: It's not that big deal to make changes and improve. (Totally different thing with any kind of hardware like cars e.g.)

In my case number one reason to buy was the visual feedback on what you are doing by modulating the OSCs. This is something I can't do in any other synth I own and I love it from a learning point of view. This thing can't do anything I couldn't do before (apart from the in my opinion outstanding FFT Editor). But it bundles all the stuff together in one big workstation. No layering, no saving of different patches needed any more. And all this is done in an 100% user-orientated GUI that just looks and feels like it was made for me.

So if the only thing I can complay about is the fact, that fonts are looking blurry and bold - I guess they did a bloody good job in my case.

Obviously this statement is subjective and there are people experience real trouble though. But right now nobody is able to set the number of bugs/issues in relation to the overall picture.

TBH this is the part where I just don't get why DEVs (this counts for nearly every software-DEV, not only in the music business) don't use the fantastic options internet is bringing to them. It has never been so easy to speak to your customer (thankfully msvs is using this option a lot!) but as well it would be easy to get a feeling how bad things really are. Just publish every reported/known bug/issue/request on some kind of feedback tool and make it easy for customers to say "yeah, this would be nice", "I got this bug as well" or "works fine for me like it is". This would give people a far less subjective but databased picture about what they have to expect. You would get some feeling for the needs and wishes of your customers and would be able to prioritize. And the customer would notice they are working on their stuff.

Just my two cents...

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:07 pm

@ wagtunes I don't dispute with your testimony about the beta process, maybe one flaw in that is the beta team didn't have enough variation. If there had been a Mac laptop running Logic beta there it maybe would have made some of these issues more apparent. Which brings me to the wider issue of what developers in general can learn from this. Maybe as well as getting normal users, there should be a team of professional beta testers who specifically look at a particular setup and do so in a much more forensic way. There is a financial consideration in this of course. I did beta test for a major DAW years ago and part of it was to take a specific area and break it, simple usage does not reveal specifics as Simon is finding out.

NB I wasn't on the beta team and even if I was the GPU issues don't affect me. The plugin works pretty well here.

To be clear I am not bashing the beta testers in this, you can only report on the system you have.

Also I said this here countless times, PUT YOUR SYSTEM SPECS IN YOUR SIGNATURE. It makes life much easier for everyone.

vanhaze · Post by **vanhaze** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:26 pm

Well said, EXACTLY my point ; Amen..

elassi · Post by **elassi** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:30 pm

woodsdenis wrote:Maybe as well as getting normal users, there should be a team of professional beta testers who specifically look at a particular setup and do so in a much more forensic way.

Like I said in another thread there's a smart way to force beta-testers to hunt for bugs (the dev of FilterForge does it): Award them for finding a number of bugs (say 3-10, whatever) with a free license. You bet they will investigate every detail...

+1 for the machine setup in the sig

godly · Post by **godly** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:35 pm

kanzler wrote:
my suggestion : to have another GUI with Flat design ( no 3D design ), this should solve the GPU problem

thanks for Avenger team for quick update and we wish more

It's a sales argument that the synth can be resized and I like that.
But maybe the team should consider a FIXED bitmap version (size 80% or so) to solve the problems for now?

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:44 pm

woodsdenis wrote:...simple usage does not reveal specifics as Simon is finding out.

Exactly, although I can't understand how non-synchronizing arpeggiators, step sequencers and mod envelopes can slip through a Beta test, and that's not platform based at all, the same goes for a broken combfilter and other things. Whatever...it's only a synth and it'll be sorted out sooner or later.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:48 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:Something is odd with the knob scaling, I have the formant knob dialed towards the left by 31,3%, now I assign the modulation wheel to the formant knob and add 31,3% in the mod matrix numerically, but that doesn't reset the formant knob to zero, but it goes way beyond the 0 value, that can't be right.

This actually counts for all the knobs I've tested so far.

db3 · Post by **db3** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:50 pm

godly wrote:
kanzler wrote:
my suggestion : to have another GUI with Flat design ( no 3D design ), this should solve the GPU problem

thanks for Avenger team for quick update and we wish more
It's a sales argument that the synth can be resized and I like that.
But maybe the team should consider a FIXED bitmap version (size 80% or so) to solve the problems for now?

Any vector format can be resized (3D or flat). The point is a flat vector design requires less processing.

db3 · Post by **db3** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:54 pm

elassi wrote:
vanhaze wrote:A product that seems to behave so buggy and problematic for alot of people should never been offered for sale in the first place.
Guess I found someone to blame for a change: the Beta-Testers!

...only if they were employed beta testers and had access to multiple system configurations.

gabrielefx · Post by **gabrielefx** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:55 pm

on my Mac Book Pro closing the Avenger GUI the sound doesn't stuck anymore playing heavy chords.
I think that the vector based GUI uses too many resources or interferes with cpu cycles because playing 7 notes chords the sound stucks or the plugin crashes (Bitwig latest release) at only 30% of cpu resources.
I don't know if the plugin uses all cpu cores, I hope so.
Increasing samples from 128 to 256 can helps, Avengers runs better with opened control panel but is not the definitive solution.
Programmers will fix this issue, it's an easy task.

regards

Dipzta · Post by **Dipzta** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:57 pm

It doesnt work. when open the demo VST in Cubase 6,8 or 9 64 bit, then Avenger VST screen is just black and only a saw sound is playing..
help anyone?

Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread