Cubase 9's Plug-in Manager going wrong

[Jakob / Cableguys]

Cubase 9's Plug-in Manager has a new feature: Sentinel.

Steinberg writes that Sentinel blacklists / disables all 32bit-plugins and all plugins that crash during scan, but that's only part of the truth. They also take the freedom to disable plugins that are working perfectly fine.

Some of our plugins are affected, as is the new ShaperBox, but also from other big companies, including for example Valhalla, Melodyne, Lexicon (just a random selection of plugins I saw blacklisted by Cubase's Plugin-in Manager).

I am so fed up by this.

You can re-enable blacklisted plug-ins at your own risk, here's how. On a side note, it's quite funny to see their own plugin The Grand 3 blacklisted in their Plug-in Manager.

[zvenx]

Jake, I think the Grand3 was just an example and they didn't want to use anyone else's plugin as a scapegoat.
Have you or anyone you know had Grand3 blacklisted?

rsp

[Jakob / Cableguys]

Jake, I think the Grand3 was just an example and they didn't want to use anyone else's plugin as a scapegoat.
Have you or anyone you know had Grand3 blacklisted?

rsp

OK, maybe it was just an example. But the main issue is: They're blacklisting plugins that are working perfectly fine.

[zvenx]

Jake, I think the Grand3 was just an example and they didn't want to use anyone else's plugin as a scapegoat.
Have you or anyone you know had Grand3 blacklisted?

rsp

OK, maybe it was just an example. But the main issue is: They're blacklisting plugins that are working perfectly fine.

They say, in the link you posted that it helps detect potentially troublesome plugins.
I am sure they didn't just do it to be mischievous.
I sent you a PM, hope you got it, and it is helpful.
rsp

[Jakob / Cableguys]

They say, in the link you posted that it helps detect potentially troublesome plugins.
I am sure they didn't just do it to be mischievous.
I sent you a PM, hope you got it, and it is helpful.
rsp

Yes, thank you for your link in the PM. The "potentially troublesome" is the problem - they're disabling way too many plugins that are working without issues, from way too many developers.

[JonSolo]

Jakob,

I do agree with you to some extent. It is not so much that they are blacklisting them on every computer. For example all of your plugins loaded just fine on my DAW. Nothing was blacklisted.

But one or two by NI did get blacklisted. Kong Audio got blacklisted as well as EWQL Play. Reenabling causes no issues and Cubase still loads fine.

It appears to be random and according to how long the plugin takes to load.

While I like the new feature, I do feel it could have been refined and been more of a sandbox situation like Bitwig uses so that you could experiment and see what happens or choose to permanently ban the plugin from your setup.

[sin night]

Jake, I think the Grand3 was just an example and they didn't want to use anyone else's plugin as a scapegoat.
Have you or anyone you know had Grand3 blacklisted?

rsp

The Grand 3 is actually blacklisted on my Mac. The Steinberg KB article about Sierra compatibility states that The Grand 3 is not compatible and an update is planned, so I suspect it's that OSX problem found by Steinberg and fixed on Sierra (more info here).


By the way, I have two "issues" with Plugin Sentinel:
- I can't find a way to force a rescan of a single plugin (they are rescanned at startup, but I'd like to rescan a single blacklisted plugin, in a similar fashion to Logic/Mainstage plugin manager).
- Once a blacklisted plugin is reactivated, I don't know how to move it back to the blacklist (while it's still "red").

[davidsl222]

Yeah, it blacklisted plugins like Omnisphere and many from Izotope and even Halion 5 when I loaded the update for the first time. I think based on the verbiage from Steinberg that they are just covering themselves. The verbiage basically said that a blacklisted plugin may cause crashes or erratic behavior by Cubase and if you reactivate it then it's on you.

I reactivated all my plugins except any that were 32 bit because it doesn't allow you to use 32 bit plugins and have had no problem in about eight hours of use so far.

I really like the new updated interface very much. It's sort of like Ableton with the ability to change the bottom half with tabs. The work flow is smoother when switching from edit to mixer to sampler. At first I thought I was missing things like why do I have to go to a different window still to change routing but soon figured out that Steinberg put some good thought into the interface and the things I do a lot are right within the tabs on the main page. It also feels like it's handling memory better on my 2009 imac and runs like butter on my 2015 imac.

I'm very happy with the update so far and for the first time in a year and 1/2 don't feel compelled to find and settle in with a different DAW. All that and Steinberg promised that when I die, on my deathbed, I would have total consciousness. So I've also got that going for me which is kind of nice.

[Musicisbest]

Jakob,

I do agree with you to some extent. It is not so much that they are blacklisting them on every computer. For example all of your plugins loaded just fine on my DAW. Nothing was blacklisted.

But one or two by NI did get blacklisted. Kong Audio got blacklisted as well as EWQL Play. Reenabling causes no issues and Cubase still loads fine.

It appears to be random and according to how long the plugin takes to load.

While I like the new feature, I do feel it could have been refined and been more of a sandbox situation like Bitwig uses so that you could experiment and see what happens or choose to permanently ban the plugin from your setup.

There must be some method to the madness.

[Electric Phase]

All that and Steinberg promised that when I die, on my deathbed, I would have total consciousness. So I've also got that going for me which is kind of nice.

“You’ll get nothing and like it.”

[ghettosynth]

Jakob,

It appears to be random and according to how long the plugin takes to load.

While I like the new feature, I do feel it could have been refined and been more of a sandbox situation like Bitwig uses so that you could experiment and see what happens or choose to permanently ban the plugin from your setup.

Agreed, but, with respect to above, I think that this has some value. Certain plugins have been hanging up the works for too long. I want things smooth and reliable and if a few plugins get unfairly axed, oh well.

I really like how it blacklists support DLLs that perhaps shouldn't be in the plugin directory in the first place?

[fese]

Frankly, I think the plugin sentinel, while not overwhelmingly good, is much better that everything before.
In pre-C9 version, on first startup scan or the infamous bi-annual summer/wintertime switch scan, the scanning would take forever and if a plugin behaved badly, Cubase would crash completely and had to be restarted and the scan began again. The whole procedure took over twenty minutes and several crashes and in the end, the plugins landed in the VST2xblacklist.xml in the settings directory. If I would've been a new user, I would have been lost.
Now they have finally moved the scanning to a child process, the scanning still takes too long (5-10min), but at least the whole program doesn't crash anymore afterwards you are able to reactivate blacklisted plugins in the manager instead of editing an XML file. This is actually way more user friendly.
And it took them only what, 15 years or so since Cubase SX? THAT is the annoying part!

[hivkorn]

I think sentinel is a good thing. I own a lot of plugins and I have only 4 plugins blacklisted :
Beepstreet sunrizer / 2nd sens wiggle / audio damage ronin / audio damage 914

I have updated all my plugin to their latest version and working in cubase 9 under osx Sierra is very stable !

It will prevent from an unstable configuration.

Well coded plugins are just perfectly working ( U he / vengeance sound /
Antares / Air Fx / Waves / Wave arts /nomad Factory / native instruments / ....)

I do not regret the update of OS.
I will try Rob Papen tommorow...

If someome have some blacklisted plugins , post it there.(It would be good to have a list)

[Robert Randolph]

What makes me wonder is that Steinberg apparently thought, "Ok, if we blacklist plug-ins, then people won't use them anymore!"

I really doubt that's the case. Soon as a user sees their plug-in is missing, they are going to re-enable it. I don't know of anyone that's going to see that a plug-in they use is blacklisted and say, "Oh, great! Cubase thinks that plug-in that I always use is problematic. Alright, well I'll just stop using it then!" Yeah right.

It's a ridiculous idea.

[hivkorn]

I re actived a blacklisted plugin (sunriser and some McDsp plugin (not the latest version)) when I open them cubase crash and when cubase start it crash during the initialisation...(McDsp lastest version are working really well)