KVR Audio

blurk · Post by **blurk** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:32 am

harryupbabble wrote:But if you look at the DC16 entries... only 2 were strictly 64-bit (Lagrange and WaveSynth). Those two entries are not even using huge sample libraries, did they really need to be 64-bit only? I'm just worried that developers will be making 64-bit only plugins even if their plugins could have been available in both 32-bit and 64-bit.

They probably don't need to be 64-bit only, but I noticed that both of those are the first plugins made by both of those developers. Maybe they don't have a lot of experience (yet) in multi-architecture development?

We spoke earlier about the limited time available for this challenge? Have you done any software development yourself? Do you know how much additional time it takes to learn how to add a different architecture target but more importantly how much extra time it takes to test an extra build? Maybe those two developers only have access to a 64-bit host and so couldn't easily test a 32-bit build?

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:42 am

Okay let's say those two have their reasons. But is that a good justification for the other developers to leave 32-bit behind and go 64-bit only? For that "one" advantage, the "more memory" advantage?

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:53 am

If most music-makers are not making music that requires use of huge sample libraries then where's the justification for making a technology (32-bit) extinct when it is still useful to so many people? Okay, it's late here, so I gotta go even if it is the holidays. Bye for now.

Ivan_C · Post by **Ivan_C** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:50 am

harryupbabble : having a 64-bits OS allows you to use more than 4 Gb of RAM not only for loading huge sample librairies but also for having a lot of applications running without having anything slowing down, like tons of a plug-in loaded in a single DAW, your web browser, developer tools, chat apps... In my computer, 1-2 Gb of RAM is used by the graphics card and some background stuff, if I didn't have 16 Gb of RAM to make everything as smooth as possible, I wouldn't be happy at all.

GaryG · Post by **GaryG** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:56 am

harryupbabble wrote:But if you look at the DC16 entries... only 2 were strictly 64-bit (Lagrange and WaveSynth). Those two entries are not even using huge sample libraries, did they really need to be 64-bit only?

Lagrange isn't 64 bit only, pretty sure my 32 bit system is handling it fine.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:04 pm

I see, you all still are eager to find out for yourself how much my suggestion above will improve your forum experience!

blurk · Post by **blurk** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:08 pm

harryupbabble wrote:Okay let's say those two have their reasons. But is that a good justification for the other developers to leave 32-bit behind and go 64-bit only? For that "one" advantage, the "more memory" advantage?

And who says the other developers are leaving 32-bit behind? By your own analysis (41 - 2) / 41 = approximately 95% of developers in the DC still support 32-bit.

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:55 pm

Okay, I get your point Ivan, some people are multitaskers. It's just that I was compelled to defend the continued existence of 32-bit plugins. If people don't speak up maybe the next Developer Challenge will all be 64-bit and they won't run on 32-bit DAWs. Already, the Lagrange and WaveSynth won't run in one of my two 32-bit DAWs even though I have "converted" those two 64-bit using the JBridge demo.

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:57 pm

GaryG wrote:
harryupbabble wrote:But if you look at the DC16 entries... only 2 were strictly 64-bit (Lagrange and WaveSynth). Those two entries are not even using huge sample libraries, did they really need to be 64-bit only?
Lagrange isn't 64 bit only, pretty sure my 32 bit system is handling it fine.

That's strange. Are you sure because I presume JBridge won't convert 32-bit plugins to 32-bit and yet it did convert Lagrange, from 64-bit, I presume.

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:02 pm

Ivan_C wrote:harryupbabble : having a 64-bits OS allows you to use more than 4 Gb of RAM not only for loading huge sample librairies but also for having a lot of applications running without having anything slowing down, like tons of a plug-in loaded in a single DAW, your web browser, developer tools, chat apps... In my computer, 1-2 Gb of RAM is used by the graphics card and some background stuff, if I didn't have 16 Gb of RAM to make everything as smooth as possible, I wouldn't be happy at all.

This is my understanding of ram memory:

Pretend that
1) video player maximum memory usage = 500 MB
2) web browser maximum memory usage = 500 MB
3) DAW maximum memory usage = 500 MB
4) Three VST plugins maximum memory usage = 1500 MB
5) Developer Tools maximum memory usage = 500 MB
6) Chat Apps maximum memory usage = 500 MB

And pretend that you have additional programs running and all in all the total memory required is over 8 GB.
As long as your 32-bit OS has 16 GB memory and fast CPU it should be able to handle all that multitasking just as good as a 64-bit OS?

A 32-bit OS just won't be able to make use of apps that does need to use so much more memory (like one that uses huge sample libraries). But, for example, what kind of compressors need 4 GB of memory to function? Or a guitar simulator VST plugin? 100 MB at most? Average?

Just to repeat, a 32-bit OS should be able to handle multitasking easily as long as it has, let's say, 16 GB of memory.
I mean a 32-bit DAW should be able to handle, let's say, 100 VST plugins that the common composer uses.
But come on, how many composers actually uses huge sample libraries? Big budget composers maybe. Film composers, etc. And aren't those kind of composers the elite and not the norm?

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:25 pm

Wouldn't it be great to have some sort of demo tracks thread, maybe something almost like the OSC, just with instruments and tools from the DC16?! I think that would be great!

blurk · Post by **blurk** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:30 pm

harryupbabble wrote:It's just that I was compelled to defend the continued existence of 32-bit plugins. If people don't speak up maybe the next Developer Challenge will all be 64-bit and they won't run on 32-bit DAWs.

I'd be really surprised if 32-bit plugins died out that soon on Windows. I still think you are panicking needlessly. Still, you are probably right in the long term. We've stopped supporting PPC builds on the Mac for a while now, so superseded formats do die out eventually.

thomekk · Post by **thomekk** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Taron wrote:Wouldn't it be great to have some sort of demo tracks thread, maybe something almost like the OSC, just with instruments and tools from the DC16?! I think that would be great!

Indeed! I'm still trying to get one or two layouts finished with only plugs from the contest - hopefully in time

The agitated pre-xmas time is fighting against this. Let's see who wins...

Ivan_C · Post by **Ivan_C** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:08 pm

And pretend that you have additional programs running and all in all the total memory required is over 8 GB.
As long as your 32-bit OS has 16 GB memory and fast CPU it should be able to handle all that multitasking just as good as a 64-bit OS?

You don't understand what I meant. If your OS is 32-bits, you can't even have more than 4 Gb at all to use for your computer. The OS just don't reckognize the additional RAM, not just for one application, but for all your applications at the same time.

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Ivan_C wrote:
And pretend that you have additional programs running and all in all the total memory required is over 8 GB.
As long as your 32-bit OS has 16 GB memory and fast CPU it should be able to handle all that multitasking just as good as a 64-bit OS?
You don't understand what I meant. If your OS is 32-bits, you can't even have more than 4 Gb at all to use for your computer. The OS just don't reckognize the additional RAM, not just for one application, but for all your applications at the same time.

But according to this, you could: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_limit

"Limits on physical memory for 32-bit platforms also depend on the Physical Address Extension (PAE), which allows 32-bit systems to use more than 4 GB of physical memory."

KVR Dev Challenge 2016!