Virtual desktops with 3D-gestures, Revolution in computer UI

[ghettosynth]

I had to see what all the fuss was about. This campaign is ludicrous. The funding goal was drawn from a hat? It won't go towards building a prototype? What exactly DO you intend to do with the money???

And that fake video with the mouse clacking on the table? That would drive me crazy!

Anyway, there are already much more refined 3D mice:
http://www.3dconnexion.com

Indeed, and anyone who's trying to build a company would/should at least know some of the competition.

Honestly, this idea is something that could be reasonably knocked up at a hackathon in a weekend.

[jabe]

I've used computers for 40 years and mouses/mice for about 30. When I use a mouse, the heel of my hand and some of my wrist is resting on the table. I'm fast with a mouse and its movements feel like it's part of me. I can change windows by clicking on the taskbar, so I don't have to use the keyboard. Windows 10 will let me create multiple desktops which I can move between with the mouse. My left hand hovers over the keyboard in a place where alt-Tab is very close. Picking up the mouse does not feel natural or quick.

I'm in favour of progress and innovation, but I can't find any advantage in this idea.

[whyterabbyt]

Just so those of you who are more budget-conscious are aware, Im quite prepared to accept a mere $5000 to randomly think about how best to cause new and interesting forms of RSI, draw some crude cartoon, and produce absolutely nothing. And no virtual hugs, I guarantee it.

So, roll sideways with a half twist and then up, and get your 50% off revolution in computer UI here. Paypal accepted. No refunds.

[golemus]

and no response to my criticism of the biomechanics

wrist rotation is not symmetrical for human hands which makes your solution a bit clumsy when trying to rotate anticlockwise (for righthanders). Better is a gestural system which is probably available now - use left right acceleration. Pretty sure this has all been done before when people were investigat.ing the mouse in virtual spaces

Sorry I did read your message. You are right that rotating anticlockwise is more difficult (for righthanders). If there is available a system where you could map movements with high acceleration to events, please give me an url. If I think about how I use a mouse, sometimes I accelerate the mouse somewhat and if acceleration would change virtual desktops, I suspect that I would switch them quite often unintentionally.

To be fair though unintentional changing could happen even with TiltMouse, but I see myself lifting the mouse much more seldom than doing high acceleration with it. The only way to know would be to implement a prototype and test how it work in real world.

[golemus]

And that fake video with the mouse clacking on the table? That would drive me crazy!

Anyway, there are already much more refined 3D mice:
http://www.3dconnexion.com

Good luck with your pizza fund...

I actually increased the volume of the clacking in the video quite a lot. In reality the clacking is not as loud as it appears in the video (you can test to do it with your mouse). I thought that volume increase would be a good idea to that people really notice the connection between the mouse hitting the table and desktop switching. But now that I have gotten multiple feedbacks from the clacking noise in the video I think that maybe it was not a good idea

[golemus]

Anyway, there are already much more refined 3D mice:
http://www.3dconnexion.com

Indeed, and anyone who's trying to build a company would/should at least know some of the competition.

Honestly, this idea is something that could be reasonably knocked up at a hackathon in a weekend.

I am familiar with 3dconnexion. It seems like a specialized tool for CAD Engineer. It is big, not something that you would want to carry with you like a laptop. Probably expensive too. And as it is a completely new sort of device there is a learning curve and you would have to change your everyday computer workflow significantly.TiltMouse is an ordinary mouse with two new gestures.

[golemus]

Anyway, there are already much more refined 3D mice:
http://www.3dconnexion.com

Indeed, and anyone who's trying to build a company would/should at least know some of the competition.

Honestly, this idea is something that could be reasonably knocked up at a hackathon in a weekend.

I am familiar with 3dconnexion. It seems like a specialized tool for CAD Engineer. It is big, not something that you would want to carry with you like a laptop. Probably expensive too. And as it is a completely new sort of device there is a learning curve and you would have to change your everyday computer workflow significantly.TiltMouse is an ordinary mouse with two new gestures.

They are completely different animals and far from being competing products (in my opinion)

[whyterabbyt]

I am familiar with 3dconnexion....It is big, not something that you would want to carry with you like a laptop.

erm, clearly you're not familiar with 3dconnexion.

And as it is a completely new sort of device there is a learning curve and you would have to change your everyday computer workflow significantly.TiltMouse is an ordinary mouse with two new gestures.

They are completely different animals and far from being competing products (in my opinion)

A Spacenavigator is ostensibly a joystick with two new gestures (twist and push/pull)

[golemus]

erm, clearly you're not familiar with 3dconnexion.

ok I admit that I didn't notice that they have also a portable version as this is the only one that I saw:

http://www.3dconnexion.eu/products/spacemouse.html

Anyway my other comments than "too big to be portable" in the previous message are still valid

[whyterabbyt]

Anyway my other comments than "too big to be portable" in the previous message are still valid

nope. I already addressed your fallacious 'learning curve' assertion, and the spacenavigator is under £100 so its not that expensive.
and that's all your argument entailed.

Either way, Im suspecting that you actually have minimal understanding/experience of alternative gestural controllers in the same sort of niche, and (given your failure to recognise basic anatomic constraints in wrist movements) minimal research into your own idea.

do us all a favour, and actually try your idea for a few months before deciding how brilliant it is. shouldnt be hard to dummy up a prototype, either with left/right magnetic/laser distance sensors tracked by an arduino, or an overhead webcam, some fiducial markers you can stick to your hand or mouse, and openCV or Eyesweb.

[golemus]

Anyway my other comments than "too big to be portable" in the previous message are still valid

nope. I already addressed your fallacious 'learning curve' assertion,

I assume that you mean the "it is a joystick" comment...?

Everybody knows how a joystick works, but:

- it is one thing to know how a controller works and another to be able to use it with perfect precision, like it would be an extension of your body. If you had used mouse for 30 years how long do you think that it would take for you to be equally precise with a joystick? If you switch from one mouse to another, there is no learning curve. If you switch from mouse to a joystick there is a learning curve, it might be only a few days or up to couple of months, but it is still there.

- would you use a joystick as your main pointer device for 8h even up to 16h each day? I am not saying that I would not if I had the extra time to learn a new controller, but in general it feels much easier to switch to another mouse than to switch to a totally different sort of pointing device.

- and I don't see any buttons in that is there any? You still need at least 2 buttons, a scroll wheel, forward-and backward buttons (or those are the ones that I use all the time at least)..

Either way, Im suspecting that you actually have minimal understanding/experience of alternative gestural controllers in the same sort of niche, and (given your failure to recognise basic anatomic constraints in wrist movements) minimal research into your own idea.

Of course I know that there is anatomic constraints. I just told you in the message before that counter clockwise wrist rotation could be a problem but it is impossible to know it before testing a prototype.

And believe me I have thought of this for years. And yes I know that more research is needed and that is why I did this campaign.

do us all a favour, and actually try your idea for a few months before deciding how brilliant it is. shouldnt be hard to dummy up a prototype, either with left/right magnetic/laser distance sensors tracked by an arduino, or an overhead webcam, some fiducial markers you can stick to your hand or mouse, and openCV or Eyesweb.

Well maybe it is easy for somebody that is good with electronics and background in required type of programming, but not for me. I am sure I could do it by studying a little bit, perhaps in couple of months but I don't want to if I am the only person who sees value in this sort of mouse

[whyterabbyt]

And believe me I have thought of this for years. And yes I know that more research is needed and that is why I did this campaign.

But you've clearly not done any research at all.

Well maybe it is easy for somebody that is good with electronics and background in required type of programming, but not for me. I am sure I could do it by studying a little bit, perhaps in couple of months but I don't want to if I am the only person who sees value in this sort of mouse

Good to see that after years of 'thinking' about this, a couple of months investment in actually doing something is too much for you.

And for the record, its not about whether or not anyone 'sees value in this sort of mouse', its about whether or not anyone sees value in funding you. And since you clearly cant even be arsed doing anything concrete at all, or half-decent research, yet still expect folk to hand over non-returnable donations on the basis of absolutely nothing... well that aint a value proposition. Its crowdfunding, not vanity publishing for stoners.

[ghettosynth]

Well maybe it is easy for somebody that is good with electronics and background in required type of programming, but not for me. I am sure I could do it by studying a little bit, perhaps in couple of months but I don't want to if I am the only person who sees value in this sort of mouse

So, for those of us who do have that background, trust me when I tell you that right now you are "that guy." You are the annoying person who thinks that they have an original idea but since you can't be assed to do even basic research you are blithely unaware of how unoriginal your idea really is. Moreover, since you lack any sort of meaningful technical skill with respect to the idea, you are also ignorant of how trivial your basic idea is technically.

Hackathons are full of people with similar "ideas." They're always running around trying to recruit the techies and seem genuinely surprised that nobody wants to work with them. As a group, they lack self awareness and overvalue their contributions significantly. That is what you are doing right now. You haven't given us any reason to support you or believe in you.

That's not to say that people who lack technical skills aren't valuable in that setting, they are, but they must bring something really strong to the table in terms of business or people skills. They too would laugh at your idea of starting a crowdfunding campaign to evaluate an idea in the manner that you're doing. They would be busy as f**k evaluating and researching the idea. They would be able to successfully recruit people with the right skills. That's what their skill is and it's not likely that they would be caught off guard in a forum like this. They would be able to manage this conversation to get at least some of the participants thinking positively about their proposal.

Good luck, but, from my point of view, this might as well be a scam.

[Hink]

"I spent alot of time thinking up this shit man!"

Gimme money.png

If my pic is still here in 10 minutes I will report you to the moderators of this forum, they might disable your account temporarily or even ban you from this forum.

This is a discussion of the potential of gesture control with computers and daws, my picture has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Take it away, please.

while I never received such a report I will remove your pic. However at this point I am also going to remove your link and lock this thread. I'm not comfortable with the crowdfunding request at this stage and I tend to agree with the concerns of others about this (not to mention this is indeed in the wrong forum).

If you decide to appeal this to another mod and they disagree with my decision so be it, I would prefer to err on the side of caution. If you have something more concrete than just an idea we can revisit this then.