Recognizing and owning up to your own arrogance.

[Synapse2k]

I am jazzy probel

[V0RT3X]

Ok so now this is turning into something worthy of HPC. I've got people fighting and a potentially crazy guy posting weird cryptic stuff.

I appreciated the people who kind of stayed on topic though.

[Robmobius]

I'm starting to see the summit I want to reach now, and it's attainable but I do realize just how much hard hard work that will be required. If I want to be like my musical idols, then I'll need to go put the time in just like they did.

That's the key, putting in the flight time... Most of the best producers, that I know (or know of, I should say). Spent most of their time in the studio while everyone else was out getting boozed up.

Plus, they had a lot of mates already established in the industry, or were lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, etc.

It's when you achieve 'that certain level' when you see the summit (as you said) you then realize, that from a technical perspectice anyway, that you goal is somewhat achievable (in time). Of course, it depends on what your goals are also.

If you goal is to make beats and have fun in your bedroom, then it's very quicky acheivalbe but if you want to go beyond that, that's when things start to get more and more complex.

[Functional]

What do we not agree on again?

Oh, sorry I didn't articulate myself that. I meant I think that marketing has actually something to do with it, but not necessarily being "the only thing to blame", just to some unknown degree. You didn't explicitly say that it has nothing to do with it, but I kind of picked that up implicitly. But what I talked about wasn't anymore related to marketing of loops (where I agree with you after giving it a thought), I brought up a completely different thing; how the top-of-line acts especially in the EDM scene are marketed to people and I think it's sort of a byproduct to have all these people with predetermined attitude showing up and wanting to make it big and quick. So, my bad there, I didn't state that well enough at all.

Well, I suppose because I have some distance from that particular thing, I don't have anything against that. My old musical partner-in-crime, as close musically as I'll ever get to somebody, posted some Loscil last nite. And that guy apparently does something live, I think solo.
I enjoyed the one thing... it was part of a playlist of course, & I didn't go for all of it.

Well I have my arbitrary exceptions too. And I would understand why, Loscil for example, would play like that solo (I think electronic ambient music isn't really about playing the synths). I can't really say exactly what bothers me about it and when it exactly bothers. It doesn't certainly always bother me, for example it's common in witch house scene in Russia (Vedmin Dom as they call it), and I quite like what they're doing. But then again, that's people who aren't even afraid to have heavy digital clipping in their released tracks. They just don't care and they're not trying to make a commercial thing out of it.

Anyway, nice to know that you do get appreciation around here. I also think you do important work and your persistence is very admirable. By the way, if you liked Loscil, I could dare to suggest my personal favorite in that realm; Chihei Hatakeyama. Maybe you will enjoy it.

[Functional]

consistently placed myself in the situation that allowed no illusions.

Uhhh... No you didn't.

Look, you're clearly not even trying to comprehend what she is trying to say, because what you just said makes no sense. How do you exactly know that she did or did not? Were you overseeing her whole life or did you read an autobiography?

To at least have a little bit of credibility in your replies, you could at least show a little of respect by trying to make sense of what someone is saying, especially since you've contributed nothing to this topic other than attacking a person.

[jancivil]

Yeah, I was fine when my father set me up to be cut on stage in front of paying customers.
I didn't complain. I didn't talk back to my elders, not in music.
I looked to play with people quite a bit older than me, some of whom had really been around. I didn't have a big ego problem when someone had all of these chops and it was clear I had brought very little in comparison. I knew these cats were mature, and me, not so much.

As I actually have said, I got myself into conservatory, where everybody's been working towards it since they were little, and having quite reasonable chances for moving on up to careers, some of them major careers. I was scared shitless really and woodshedded super hard. That's what I mean. I have an acute sense of where I am in the world. Coming from nowhere, essentially.

Is there some spot at KVR Forums where I have some illusions about my place? Ya know, there are lots of people here that have a far better grasp of a thing, modular synthesis for sure. You have not seen me disrespecting these people like you did here. I don't have that kind of ego dysfunction, I like to encounter people I can only learn from.

But 'you', 'Robmobius', sorry buddy, doesn't ring a bell.
(Ah, I see, a Producer...)

The forum is not really here to bash an individual repeatedly. If you want to show me as a disagreeable sort, criminy, check yourself. JESUS.

[HunterKiller]

It is not easy to conquer one's self. But the taming of the ego is one of the greatest things one can do for oneself, in their whole life. It is the greatest gift you can give yourself, because it changes the way you live as a being. The depth of one's change depends on the depth of one's dedication to the highest ideals. I've found that ideals when they are set by worldly ideas, aren't anywhere near as powerful or as good agents of change, as when you ask God to lead you. Thus the ultimate way of maturation is to submit to the will of God. In human terms it would be like a child submitting to the will of a very, very wise elder, who knew exactly what the most optimum path was for you. And lead you there, until the day you matured. From where you could then lead yourself. The maturation, is a gradual process, most people reach only the first levels of maturity at the very end of their life.

If the person wishes to really mature, they will discipline themselves. And if they really wish to serve, they will ask God to use them to help others, in whichever way it is possible.

Arrogance is just a tiny, tiny part of a larger whole. It is best to approach the whole, rather than just addressing a part. Because this allows other parts of the self to also develop.

[statue]

I feel a bit the same way. Here's my personal list of "welcome to reality" audio/music related experiences in not necessarily chronological order:

1. Had a friend with executive contacts at Nintendo. Said he would present my music. Apparently it sounded too much like their 8-bit stuff and they passed.
2. Met the guy in charge of Disney's international live show division (lives in Eagle Point, OR) at an airport. He was interested in talking business, I gave him my then new work email address. Turns out my company had forgot to activate the account and I never got the email. f**k
3. Someone stole my music and used it in a game that won a $10k purse in a game design competition. Realized this when a friend's kid brother was playing the game on a computer and I heard a song that sounded very ... familiar...
4. Spun up a event planning gig, met Rick Ross and booked Nipsey Hustle/Kirko Bangz/Kid Ink with some the help of some "kinda" shady people in a situation that looked workable for a small town (I won't say where). Entire thing went to shit in the most hellish fashion imaginable. Got kicked out of the room I was renting and lost everything I had while people threatened me with all kinds of legal action when all the money went "missing"
5. Knew a guy who was friends with the creator of Minecraft. Promised to get my music in front of him. Never happened.
6. Collab'd with Pete Townshend two years back. Owner of Spirit music group said he was interested in doing additional stuff for release. After a certain point I never heard back about any of it.
7. Worked for a toy development company that did audio production (composition/sound design/everything) for all the big releases. Had a single song in a major toy before they pigeon-holed me into an IT position because the previous sys admin decided to simply not show up one day and I was the only other person who could do his job. I quit soon after.
8. Knew a guy that was putting an actual recording studio in a mall (I shit you not). This dude secured some initial funding and then got caught drinking alcohol with underage kids with some "not ok" things happening in tandem and later had big scary dudes looking to murder him show up at intermittent times. Private investigators and the whole bit followed. A number of people stole all the gear and the mall blacklisted everyone involved. Bad shit.

Needless to say I basically have given up pretending that I will accomplish actual f**k all with music at any point. The truth is I don't have a f**king clue where the line between actual work/talent and just getting balls-to-the-wall lucky lies. My experience professionally with music is that it's a complete shit show that occasionally rewards something besides nominal ability and simply being in the right place at the right time.

Good god man.
That is one giant amount of shit poured right on you.

And to OP: I can relate 100%.

[incubus]

Ok so now this is turning into something worthy of HPC. I've got people fighting and a potentially crazy guy posting weird cryptic stuff.

I appreciated the people who kind of stayed on topic though.

That guy has always been crazy. Filtering is the only way to get through on these kinda issues (but you have to admit, it's a loaded gun )

[jancivil]

What do we not agree on again?

I brought up a completely different thing; how the top-of-line acts especially in the EDM scene are marketed to people and I think it's sort of a byproduct to have all these people with predetermined attitude showing up and wanting to make it big and quick.

Ah, it isn't that different than people having pop stardom flashbulbed in their face ubiquitously. It isn't that different than the entitled kids at jr high Talent Show lipsyncing to a record like that's an act, because there is a type of person that assumes it's all handed to them for nothing, or for a token effort.

It is an irritation to me that due to the internet, it takes up all this space. A consumer forum such as this promotes 'making beats', loop packages.

To notice this is not to say any modi operandi is in itself this or that. Loops in sensu stricto are audio clips. I've used extensive bits of audio that were not me deciding on note-ons or determining really any of it except starting pitch, if that even applies. Well, determining where it ends is something.

- Musique Concrète, yeah?

If someone resents hearing that there is a sort of price of entry, obtain musical experience before you write music, it only signals that they feel like that's mean, because they are owed that entry just because they were born. Sad reality, that.

[jancivil]

I feel a bit the same way. Here's my personal list of "welcome to reality" audio/music related experiences in not necessarily chronological order:

/litany of disappointments

Sounds like an episode of Maron.

LMAO. That's the best thing in this thread afaic.

[Robmobius]

Were you overseeing her whole life or did you read an autobiography?

Of course!

[Functional]

It is an irritation to me that due to the internet, it takes up all this space. A consumer forum such as this promotes 'making beats', loop packages.

How do you mean this? It's annoying because it promotes making the beats (i.e. hogging up space from other, more interesting and presumably helpful discussion) or the waste of potential when people are focusing into things they shouldn't necessarily focus at (due to certain kinds of expectations) which might result slower development or even complete frustration eventually? Both?

I mean if that is what you mean, either of the two, then yeah, I think you're entirely reasonable with that grievance.

To notice this is not to say any modi operandi is in itself this or that. Loops in sensu stricto are audio clips. I've used extensive bits of audio that were not me deciding on note-ons or determining really any of it except starting pitch, if that even applies. Well, determining where it ends is something.

- Musique Concrète, yeah?

It's actually funny that I find some parallels here with Amon Tobin and certain discussions about him or discussions that were derivatives of his work (see "spectral morphing" topics). You see, when he steered more towards musique concrète direction from the trip-hop (or whatever it was), a lot of people turned curious as to how he made those sounds in ISAM. So eventually you get this buzzword, "spectral morphing". It's all about that. I won't go into more detail of these discussions, but let's just put it this way; nobody ever actually mentions that Amon Tobin himself has already been doing music for 15 years at least by the time ISAM was released. A lot of the methods he used in ISAM already came from his past. Sound manipulation? Well he his debut album was called Bricolage and you can guess why. He had another album, "Foley Room". Again, you can guess. You'd think that has something to do with how he manages to do it, because effectively there is actually only so little "new" apart from having an expensive Continuum keyboard and KymaX system, he still effectively uses all of his past experience.

Another telling aspect: rarely it is mentioned that that's not all he does, even in terms of synthesis and sound design generally. He uses clearly a lot of granular synthesis, for example. As much as he does use doppler effect almost exhaustively. They're just as much of a characteristic of his work. But I guess these don't get as much attention because people already have experience with them and they can't get the "same" results. The myth is already bust, so no point to keep it up.

So I guess this might be similar to what you mean? Obviously this is very different thing because these discussions are actually rare (to my knowledge) so they don't bother as much (and the tools in question are often not actually acquired by people, so they don't directly encourage anyone). And yes, I just now came up with this observation. I've seen plenty of those discussions but never thought about them this way.

If someone resents hearing that there is a sort of price of entry, obtain musical experience before you write music, it only signals that they feel like that's mean, because they are owed that entry just because they were born. Sad reality, that.

All things considered, can't argue with this.

[xoxos]

somewhat OT but related... on consideration of "why doesn't my music sound like commercial music?",

fascination. women used to wear little clip-on hats called fascinators. mr. spock used to say it a lot.

i think most people consider such things in the intransitive sense, but if we consider the transitive sense, ...music "can do so much" - the myriad, multivarious intents of human communication. music can be used with the intent to confuse, bewilder, and create a state of fascination.. to impress, dazzle..

this may not be something that truly resonates with the composer, if eg. they are conveying some other quality in their music, fascination may not be a part of that, and therefore lacks the apparent appeal, attraction of composition that is intent on drawing, seducing, luring the listener.

it seems to be widely acknowledged ("lie to me, like they do it in the factory") that the industry has some implicit intent to appeal to the consumer (...) on the surface, how can an honest person compete with a prostitute? especially if they have a finite amount of attention in which to present themselves to the audience. there are imo wider issues, but consider.. someone who wants to be kind to their audience may be at a disadvantage in appeal to someone who is only interested in using their audience.

[harryupbabble]

But but but, I just realized... there's quite a lot of possibly arrogant musicians in my CD/MP3 collection. If I were to go by this thought "No arrogant musicians will be in my music collection" I am guessing my music collection would be empty. But maybe "arrogant" is not the right word.

Definition of arrogant: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

But what is the word that has this meaning: having or revealing an accurate sense of one's own importance or abilities.

And this meaning: having or revealing a doubtful sense of one's own importance or abilities.