Serums And Rapids And Falcons Oh My!!! (Avenger And Icarus)

[PALU]

Thanks for that wagtunes! Nice contribution to the community!

[fmr]

Man... now I wish even more that I could try Falcon . It's such a hefty price, I wish they had a demo.

There are plenty of videos available (many by Simon) showing Falcon in action, how to program it, etc. They will show you pretty much what Falcon is. But you can take the word of those here (including me): Falcon is the nº 1 sound-designer synth/sampler. It simply allows you to do (almost) EVERYTHING. I just wish they would go a little further with FM, but eventually they will get there in the future.

[HcDoom]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of wt synths compared to normal VA subtractive synths, in your opinion?

[wagtunes]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of wt synths compared to normal VA subtractive synths, in your opinion?

Dynamic waveforms as opposed to static waveforms would be the main advantage of WT synths. There's only so much you can do with a sawtooth wave aside from filtering it, modulating it and slapping a ton of FX on it. Sure, with all of that, you can eventually turn it into something else. But with a WT synth, one wave can sound like 256 different waves at the most extreme and variations of one wave at more moderate use.

Disadvantages? Depends on how much "stuff" is left out of the WT synth to allow for all the processing power needed to do its main thing. Also depends on how flexible the WT processing is to begin with.

But in general, I see nothing but advantages to having a WT synth over a VA synth. I'd much rather use Serum than a Minimoog since Serum can do what a Minimoog can do but not the other way around.

This is why I never understood the love affair with the old synths, an era I lived through, in the first place. But that's another topic for another thread.

This isn't to say that there aren't some VA synths that aren't great and some WT synths that are pretty piss poor. But all else being equal, I'll take a WT synth over a VA synth any day of the week if it has all the other features of a typical VA synth, whatever they may be.

Most of the best synths are hybrids anyway. So these days, IMO anyway, there's a real blur between the two.

Ultimately, it comes down to the individual synth and what it can and can't do. That's how I make my buying decision and not whether it's WT, VA, Additive, FM, Modular, Granular or whatever.

Sound is all that matters in the end.

[JoeCat]

For the record, I suggested the 5 synths in the topic, since they were relatively new and showing up in comparison to each other a lot recently.

Falcon really is a bit of a bear to get into - not UVI's fault; I think it's about as good an interface as could be. I think it pays to use it as the "instrument builder" it is - different approach. I'm going to spend a cold, rainy weekend making some templates, and then doing using them as starting points.

[audiosabre]

Serum CAN have a very hard and gritty sound but as Simon pointed out, can also sound quite lovely.

Those attributes are why I love things like Zebra and Diversion; they can be stunningly beautiful and clean, or downright obnoxious, rude and gnarly. I know they're not fully-featured modern WT synths like the ones reviewed here, but who knows what future incarnations will bring?

[wagtunes]

Serum CAN have a very hard and gritty sound but as Simon pointed out, can also sound quite lovely.

Those attributes are why I love things like Zebra and Diversion; they can be stunningly beautiful and clean, or downright obnoxious, rude and gnarly. I know they're not fully-featured modern WT synths like the ones reviewed here, but who knows what future incarnations will bring?

I'd like to see Zebra 3 go fully modular though I doubt that would ever happen. Still, I'm definitely looking forward to whatever Zebra 3 brings.

[Lotuzia]

... Serum can do what a Minimoog can do but not the other way around......

.... Sound is all that matters in the end.

'do' ... maybe (I'll assume you mean playing notes) .

Sound, certainly not.

There's clearly something wrong in the little points between you two sentences.

[wagtunes]

... Serum can do what a Minimoog can do but not the other way around......

.... Sound is all that matters in the end.

'do' ... maybe (I'll assume you mean playing notes) .

Sound, certainly not.

There's clearly something wrong in the little points between you two sentences.

Okay, maybe missing an oscillator Serum would fall a little short of a Mini. So a Sonic Six or an Odyssey then.

Point is, VA synths can't do what WT synths can do. Not with static waveforms. It is physically impossible unless they have WT oscillators built into them, thus the hybrid synths that I talked about.

Today, with the functionality that a lot of synths are built with, the distinction is almost becoming meaningless anyway.

Still, give me a WT synth with all the functionality of a typical VA synth and I will take that WT synth over a VA synth any day of the week if for no other reason than more oscillator timber options.

[noddog]

Thanks very much wags for your detailed comparison! Rest assured that for every forum troll trying to bait you with a sarcastic remark, there are dozens of others here who appreciate hearing your opinions.

For me, I don't own any of these 5 synths. Now I mostly use Dune2, Synthmaster, Alchemy (old 1.5 windows), and Massive. I do deep house, chill, downtempo, trip hop and mostly tweak presets for sounds. Spend more time on effects. I've been taking a look at these 5 and here's my take so far:

Serum - good synth, but seems too cold and hard, I like the warmer Dune2 type sounds better
Icarus - I like it, but seems very similar to what I already have in Massive
Rapid - love the sound of this synth! Great work by a new developer, hope to see more chill soundbanks released for it
Avenger - amazing piece of work, a lot of great sounds, but also pretty EDM focused, surely many good soundbanks will be made for it
Falcon - obviously an impressive, groundbreaking synth, but just too complicated for what I need

So right now, I'm thinking I'll get Rapid. Or maybe get both Rapid and Avenger!

[wagtunes]

Thanks very much wags for your detailed comparison! Rest assured that for every forum troll trying to bait you with a sarcastic remark, there are dozens of others here who appreciate hearing your opinions.

For me, I don't own any of these 5 synths. Now I mostly use Dune2, Synthmaster, Alchemy (old 1.5 windows), and Massive. I do deep house, chill, downtempo, trip hop and mostly tweak presets for sounds. Spend more time on effects. I've been taking a look at these 5 and here's my take so far:

Serum - good synth, but seems too cold and hard, I like the warmer Dune2 type sounds better
Icarus - I like it, but seems very similar to what I already have in Massive
Rapid - love the sound of this synth! Great work by a new developer, hope to see more chill soundbanks released for it
Avenger - amazing piece of work, a lot of great sounds, but also pretty EDM focused, surely many good soundbanks will be made for it
Falcon - obviously an impressive, groundbreaking synth, but just too complicated for what I need

So right now, I'm thinking I'll get Rapid. Or maybe get both Rapid and Avenger!

Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm trying to just tune out the negative stuff. Life is too short.

Rapid is a great sounding synth. You'll love it. Easy to work with and quite flexible.

[dblock]

Very Nice reviews.
On some of these synths (and others not mentioned here as well), I'm thinking that I already worked to buy it. I shouldn't have to work at getting it to sound good too. When I read something like that (and I see that fairly often in different reviews) that's a deal breaker for me. jmho

[exmatproton]

as the title says + predator 2

https://exmat.bandcamp.com/album/cathode-single

[wagtunes]

Very Nice reviews.
On some of these synths (and others not mentioned here as well), I'm thinking that I already worked to buy it. I shouldn't have to work at getting it to sound good too. When I read something like that (and I see that fairly often in different reviews) that's a deal breaker for me. jmho

I can certainly understand this for people who especially just want to get down to making music. I'm one of those weird dudes who doesn't mind dicking around with a synth for hours on end just to make one sound, if that's what it takes.

[Lotuzia]

... Serum can do what a Minimoog can do but not the other way around......

.... Sound is all that matters in the end.

'do' ... maybe (I'll assume you mean playing notes) .

Sound, certainly not.

There's clearly something wrong in the little points between you two sentences.

Okay, maybe missing an oscillator Serum would fall a little short of a Mini. So a Sonic Six or an Odyssey then.

Point is, VA synths can't do what WT synths can do. Not with static waveforms. It is physically impossible unless they have WT oscillators built into them, thus the hybrid synths that I talked about.

Today, with the functionality that a lot of synths are built with, the distinction is almost becoming meaningless anyway.

Still, give me a WT synth with all the functionality of a typical VA synth and I will take that WT synth over a VA synth any day of the week if for no other reason than more oscillator timber options.

Yes, if you think that only a third oscillator separates Serum from a Minimoog, and if you describe 'freerunning by nature' analog oscillators as 'static', it seems that the discussion can end here and immediatly.

'VA synths can do things that WT synths can't do' is as valid as the opposite. But well, some people do appreciate diversity, while some other people might prefer the 'inferior' VS 'superior' paradigm. For reasons only known of them.

You're however free to prefer WT synthesis over Analog substractive synthesis. I like both.