patchpool

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:57 pm

starflakeprj wrote:I don't know if that's the right way to go either, as there would be a license cost involved with e.g. iLok. In this case Simon will have to choose if he, or the customer, will have to pay for this. Either way Simon's earnings will probably be less because:

1. If Simon himself will cover the license fee, he will earn less money per sale.
2. If the customer will have to cover the license fee, this might lead to fewer soundsets sold = Simon will earn less money.

I guess it's extremely difficult to know, beforehand, if the seller will, or will not, gain from using some kind of copyright protection.

True, I might even lose half of my customers (those who are iLok-phobic), but I can't proceed as it is now, I might as well upload all my new releases to various torrent sites myself and hope that my true and honest supporters (and there are many) will still pay for the stuff. And apart from that, the emotional side is not to be underestimated, I ignored this disease for some years now, but with 15 torrented sets/libraries in less than 6 weeks, that's it, I resign.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:07 pm

Licensing costs are always built into the retail price of a product,it will certainly be less for Simon than outright theft of the product imo,
Even if the customer has to pay a bit more,Simon's works are a niche unique product if people want them they either buy or not buy.
I'd be happy to pay a bit more to support a developer who has a unique product.The fact that Patchpool has so many customers plus scumbag pirate thieves(unfortunately) shows there's a market for this imo.........

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:22 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
starflakeprj wrote:I don't know if that's the right way to go either, as there would be a license cost involved with e.g. iLok. In this case Simon will have to choose if he, or the customer, will have to pay for this. Either way Simon's earnings will probably be less because:

1. If Simon himself will cover the license fee, he will earn less money per sale.
2. If the customer will have to cover the license fee, this might lead to fewer soundsets sold = Simon will earn less money.

I guess it's extremely difficult to know, beforehand, if the seller will, or will not, gain from using some kind of copyright protection.
True, I might even lose half of my customers (those who are iLok-phobic), but I can't proceed as it is now, I might as well upload all my new releases to various torrent sites myself and hope that my true and honest supporters (and there are many) will still pay for the stuff. And apart from that, the emotional side is not to be underestimated, I ignored this disease for some years now, but with 15 torrented sets/libraries in less than 6 weeks, that's it, I resign.

I'm so sorry to hear this Simon, but I really hope you won't resign. Amongst the sound designers who are active on this forum, you are one of few I have the uttermost respect for. I have watched, and learned a lot from, your Falcon videos on YouTube. I usually don't buy many soundbanks though, as I'm often fine with the factory library, and I'm also trying to create my own presets. I have purchased Cardinals for Chromaphone though, which I believe is your creation.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Thanks for your support, yes, Cardinals was a commissioned aoundset I did for AAS.

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:31 pm

I will take a closer look at your Takeover soundset for Avenger btw, Avenger is one of the synths I can't really get anything good out of myself, despite the huge potential it has. For how long will you keep the pre-order price, until it's released, or only until the end of the year?

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:33 pm

starflakeprj wrote:I will take a closer look at your Takeover soundset for Avenger btw, Avenger is one of the synths I can't really get anything good out of myself, despite the huge potential it has. For how long will you keep the pre-order price, until it's released, or only until the end of the year?

Preorders are always on until the day of the release, so there is plenty of time.

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
starflakeprj wrote:I will take a closer look at your Takeover soundset for Avenger btw, Avenger is one of the synths I can't really get anything good out of myself, despite the huge potential it has. For how long will you keep the pre-order price, until it's released, or only until the end of the year?
Preorders are always on until the day of the release, so there is plenty of time.

Great, thanks!

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Simon,
it's beyond my understanding but have you ever looked at Urs approach to copy protection or some kind of watermarking?

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:57 pm

kgdrum wrote:Simon,
it's beyond my understanding but have you ever looked at Urs approach to copy protection or some kind of watermarking?

Protecting presets and samples effectively won't be solved by watermarking and investing thousands into my own copy protection which will be cracked anyway after two days, won't solve the problem either, so something iLok protected could be one solution.

dayjob · Post by **dayjob** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:02 pm

i've not used the UVI engine but i use Falcon and it's great.

years ago i rage quit iLok and sold all my software that required iLok.. but since they got it together with the software authorization and iLok licenser and no dongle required i've acquired my favorites again.

i think there are still plenty of iLok phobic people but the software auth/no dongle required route seems pretty robust for now.. knock on wood.. and i've only had an issue one time with the iLok system and it was resolved pretty quickly considering how big a bug it was and how many people it affected.

just adding my thoughts on ilok if you end up going that route.. it's not as 'bad' as it once was

i think you should do whatever it is that you can live with, keeps the lights on and has more pros than cons. boil it down to the bottom line and do what you need to do to survive.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:06 pm

If you decide to make a VI with embedded samples Urs aka U-he says he has a way to protect his products that has not been cracked,he is willing to share his method with other developers,you might want to talk to him........

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:29 am

As a regular (and thus biased) customer, I believe that you need to clearly explain why more protection is in our own best interest:
1. You are a unique artist and a fair businessman, so we must maintain fairness on our side to keep the enjoyment flowing.
2. Your own emotions are centrally important because music is emotions (and every day kvr shows how attitude = quality).
3. If you choose iLok, some customers need to be shown how much iLok has updated their workflow lately to be quite time-efficient.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:53 am

Michael L wrote:As a regular (and thus biased) customer, I believe that you need to clearly explain why more protection is in our own best interest:
1. You are a unique artist and a fair businessman, so we must maintain fairness on our side to keep the enjoyment flowing.
2. Your own emotions are centrally important because music is emotions (and every day kvr shows how attitude = quality).
3. If you choose iLok, some customers need to be shown how much iLok has updated their workflow lately to be quite time-efficient.

Maybe so Simon makes $$ for his work? What other explanation would you want?

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:15 am

I have never wanted any explanation. Obviously I did not make my point clear to everyone.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:05 am

Michael L wrote:As a regular (and thus biased) customer, I believe that you need to clearly explain why more protection is in our own best interest:
1. You are a unique artist and a fair businessman, so we must maintain fairness on our side to keep the enjoyment flowing.
2. Your own emotions are centrally important because music is emotions (and every day kvr shows how attitude = quality).
3. If you choose iLok, some customers need to be shown how much iLok has updated their workflow lately to be quite time-efficient.

And sadly fairness/trust as the basis for a business, in which the digital goods I produce have been totally unprotected for the 6+ years of the patchpool journey doesn't seem to work anymore - whenever a new customer orders something now, I get suspicious and I hate that feeling, that's nothing I want to maintain in my life. My user base has meanwhile grown to 2500+ people and knowing that a few of these individuals can't be trusted, makes me sick.

I shall investigate the licensing costs for the UVI player and then an iLok-based protection for libraries to be released, I already wanted to do that in the past but never signed their NDA about it, then Falcon came about and I forgot about it. Then I could chose that to be my main platform - fortunately Falcon can read that format too - keep up my two subscriptions and maybe release a set now and then for other plugins, already anticipating that it will get torrented anyway. And maybe go with Alchemy 2 again (I only made one library for it so far), having a Mac and LogicX seems to be a natural protection system in itself.

Christmas will give me the chance to think about all of this in depth.

patchpool

KVR Audio

Torrents, pirates, f**kers!