KVR Audio

glurgle · Post by **glurgle** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:41 pm

har

that fragment K is amazing! how did you get that out of a guitar?!?

Har · Post by **Har** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:17 pm

glurgle wrote:har

that fragment K is amazing! how did you get that out of a guitar?!?

Thanks!

Like I mentioned: aside from some volume-pedal "bowing" and two-handed tapping, everything else was done purely with software...the KTGranulator was a major part of that texture, in conjunction with use of reverb, delays, detuning, compressors, etc in SONAR (it's Input Monitoring is very helpful for doing such things in realtime

).

I have the basic explanation of how I did on the KTGranulator page under "Music Examples" at:

http://www.smartelectronix.com/~koen/KTGranulator/

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:13 am

Har,

Dude that stuff is f**king AMAZING! Iv played a lot of guitar in my time, and done alot of sound mangling too! But i dont think iv ever heard anyone combine the two with such finesse before. I was impressed by the stuff on 'Bizarre Guitar', but this is just a stage further in my opinion. Tell me, how did you get that texture to sound so... glassy? Iv done stuff like this before, by droning chords and licks, then drenching with delay, compressing and finally looping the result - it always sound ok, but kinda dull. This sounds like really bright, and not at all guitar like. Almost synthetic!

Listening to this stuff has really inspired me to re-think the limits of my guitar. Iv always been a fairly traditional player, in the sense that Iv used it more as an composition or performance instrument. I would love to get into using guitar as a source for this kind of synthetic ambient sounds. Any other tips you could share maybe, something to give me a kick start in the right direction?

Cheers

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:28 am

Har wrote:Ahh, guitars making weird non-guitar sounds...my favorite subject!

Aside from mangling my Strat's sound with software ...other techniques I like includes "bowing" across the strings using a heavy stainless steel pedal-steel slide-bar in a circular motion to create long, sustaining tones (Dave Gilmore of Pink Floyd used this technique a lot on older tunes like "Echoes").
And of course the old-fashioned method of "bowing" using the above mentioned volume-pedal to blur the attack of the notes.

I'm getting a new Chapman Stick on Monday, and I'm looking forward to trying all this weird stuff on it as well.

Just got the Floyd "Live at Pompeii" DVD and Gilmour used pedal stell slide bar technique a lot. Prior to seeing that I could have sworn it was Rick Wright doing that stuff - blew me away that it was a guitar.
Note to self: "Gotta get me one of these!" (meaning a pedal steel slide bar)

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:51 am

I don't think anyone mentioned the old reverse reverb trick yet - i.e reverse the sample, add the reverb then reverse it back? Works a treat for getting washes of sound, especially if you keep only the wet signal.

Another thing to try is to pitch up the whole riff in a sampler by intervals or even an octave, then filter and delay the f**k out of it, a bit hit and miss this one, but when it works it can sound top.

Used both of these on this wee number;

insidious

The only synth is the obvious strings from sampletank.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:38 am

donkey tugger wrote:I don't think anyone mentioned the old reverse reverb trick yet - i.e reverse the sample, add the reverb then reverse it back? Works a treat for getting washes of sound, especially if you keep only the wet signal.

Yep, i use that on vocals and drums too

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:13 am

Kriminal wrote:
donkey tugger wrote:I don't think anyone mentioned the old reverse reverb trick yet - i.e reverse the sample, add the reverb then reverse it back? Works a treat for getting washes of sound, especially if you keep only the wet signal.
Yep, i use that on vocals and drums too

Indeed, top effect on all sorts of stuff. Got to be careful though, else it gets to the stage of, "f**k it, why don't I just reverse the whole track"

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:18 am

i once saw steve hillage use a vibrator against his strings for some lovely sounds(still havent managed to find one myslef that is smooth steel

for the guitar

)
but i have been known to use a milk whisk against my strings

or lie guitar across knees all your delays and fx in easy reach,and roll marbles up and down the neck

or drop ping pong balls onto it

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:44 am

playing guitar with you dick is quite unorthodox

Barbed Wire Kiss · Post by **Barbed Wire Kiss** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:49 am

spaceman wrote:playing guitar with you dick is quite unorthodox

Altho for some guitarists it's quite orthodox to replace their dicks with their guitar

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:55 am

donkey tugger wrote:
Kriminal wrote:
donkey tugger wrote:I don't think anyone mentioned the old reverse reverb trick yet - i.e reverse the sample, add the reverb then reverse it back? Works a treat for getting washes of sound, especially if you keep only the wet signal.
Yep, i use that on vocals and drums too
Indeed, top effect on all sorts of stuff. Got to be careful though, else it gets to the stage of, "f**k it, why don't I just reverse the whole track"

Yeah, know what ya mean. I normally just cut some of the verb up, place it back into the track so it ocassionally slides into the sound if you know what i mean

im sure theres a musical term for it

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:56 am

vurt wrote:i once saw steve hillage use a vibrator against his strings for some lovely sounds(still havent managed to find one myslef that is smooth steel for the guitar )

Use tin foil

Har · Post by **Har** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:53 pm

tee boy wrote:Har,

Dude that stuff is f**king AMAZING! Iv played a lot of guitar in my time, and done alot of sound mangling too! But i dont think iv ever heard anyone combine the two with such finesse before. I was impressed by the stuff on 'Bizarre Guitar', but this is just a stage further in my opinion. Tell me, how did you get that texture to sound so... glassy? Iv done stuff like this before, by droning chords and licks, then drenching with delay, compressing and finally looping the result - it always sound ok, but kinda dull. This sounds like really bright, and not at all guitar like. Almost synthetic!

Thanks!

As for the "glassy" sound on what I assume you mean the "Fragment K" tune: a lot of that texture was by way of running through the KTGranulator...it's a wonderful effect, and by playing around with it you can come up with a lot of amazing "breathy" kind of textures, which in some ways reminds me a bit of the old D-50.

After that (for this specific sound, anyway), it's a matter of sending the results into fairly long reverb with the wet/dry mix heavily towards wet, and perhaps a touch of compression at the end to "solidify" everything a bit.
Also: another one of my favorite "secret weapons" is the mda Detune...just a touch of that can take a fairly mundane sound and breath some additional life into it.

tee boy wrote:I would love to get into using guitar as a source for this kind of synthetic ambient sounds. Any other tips you could share maybe, something to give me a kick start in the right direction?

Cheers

Well, one general rule of thumb I have when doing this kind of thing is: don't assume you have to use processors/effects that people specifically label as being "cool for guitar"....you know, the usual stuff that might come connected to some amp-sim software or something. While there's certainly nothing wrong with using that kind of stuff per se, I've notice that some people will put themselves into a kind of mental box by only thinking of using things specifically geared towards "guitar-friendly/made-for-guitar" effects.

Instead, I've found the coolest results can come from literally pumping your guitar sound through anything and everything you can get your hands on, and sometimes the weirder the better....experiment!

(SmartElectronix stuff can be really great for this kind of thing...lots of excellent tools from the good folks at The House of Bram

).
Also, try spending time experimenting not just with various effects, but the order of the effects in your signal chain...sometimes just moving a plugin before or after another one can have wild, unpredictable results. Same also with wet/dry mixes of the various effects, especially when you are chaining them together.

And oh yeah: in terms of good karma...if you can, make sure to kick some cash towards your favorite dev if they're requesting donations for donationware/shareware. It may not actually help with the creative process, but you'll feel great afterwards (well, I do anyway).

Har · Post by **Har** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:02 am

gnu23 wrote:
Har wrote:Ahh, guitars making weird non-guitar sounds...my favorite subject!

Aside from mangling my Strat's sound with software ...other techniques I like includes "bowing" across the strings using a heavy stainless steel pedal-steel slide-bar in a circular motion to create long, sustaining tones (Dave Gilmore of Pink Floyd used this technique a lot on older tunes like "Echoes").
And of course the old-fashioned method of "bowing" using the above mentioned volume-pedal to blur the attack of the notes.

I'm getting a new Chapman Stick on Monday, and I'm looking forward to trying all this weird stuff on it as well.
Just got the Floyd "Live at Pompeii" DVD and Gilmour used pedal stell slide bar technique a lot. Prior to seeing that I could have sworn it was Rick Wright doing that stuff - blew me away that it was a guitar.
Note to self: "Gotta get me one of these!" (meaning a pedal steel slide bar)

Yep, watching the "Live at Pompeii" video was where I got the idea as well!

I use a Dunlop 918 stainless steel "Jerry Byrd" model...this one: http://www.jimdunlop.com/products/slides/tonebar/

(an old friend of mine I used to gig with refers to these kinds of slides as "atomic suppositories"

)

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:16 am

Don't forget Kantos, guys!

Unorthedox Guitar Stuff