DUNE2 vs Sylenth1

[AnX]

Lets put it down to poor user programming and lack of synth knowledge.

Its totally doable in D2. There are no problems with any of its envelopes.

[recursive one]

Lets put it down to poor user programming and lack of synth knowledge.

Its totally doable in D2. There are no problems with any of its envelopes.

Then do it and show us your excellent programming.

I mean a bassline which will make me get my ass off my chair and go dance, not just a filtered saw wave.

[Gamma-UT]

This came up last year. Then the complaint was that D2 envelopes were too 'clicky'. When I tried some things out I came to the conclusion that the envelopes had plenty of range at the short end. The issue, if there is one, is either to do with curves or that the supposedly snappy sound is the result of a short hold phase followed by a rapid exponential decay. If someone posts one of these excellently snappy sounds they get with other synths, people might stand a chance of working out what they are actually after.

[Gamma-UT]

I mean a bassline which will make me get my ass off my chair and go dance, not just a filtered saw wave.

Today I learned the quality of a bassline is entirely down to the shape of an envelope. And people say good music is dead...

[recursive one]

Today I learned the quality of a bassline is entirely down to the shape of an envelope.

You'll be surprized but in psytrance this is just the case.

Peeps, enjoy your Dune2 and its envelopes, I don't mind

[Gamma-UT]

Today I learned the quality of a bassline is entirely down to the shape of an envelope.

You'll be surprized but in psytrance this is just the case.

There is a difference between believing this to be the case and reality. Subtle timing alterations and gauging how the kick, bass and sub-bass interact seem to be a lot more important from what I can tell, even for the simplest one-note galloping bassline.

[chk071]

I mean a bassline which will make me get my ass off my chair and go dance, not just a filtered saw wave.

Today I learned the quality of a bassline is entirely down to the shape of an envelope.

You'd be surprised. Bulent from KV331 Audio wrote here that the envelopes would be worked over, because they were (according to him) much too slow. You can't work around that with any kind of curve shape.

[ere2learn]

Can someone post a psytrance bass example from a track,for reference,TIA

[dentnile]

Maybe it has to do with the default attack that can feel a bit soft for the psy trance bass. Also, in Sylenth 1 the oscillators in default patch is Retrig but not in DUNE 2, makes huge difference. I guess many Sylenth1 users miss this detail when trying DUNE 2. The init patches are not the same.

For the snappiest attack in DUNE 2, do this:
- Init patch
- In mod matrix: Const +75 Osc 1 Init Phase. This gives a faster attack than pressing the Osc reset button.
- Press analog button
- A: 0 (turn down from default!) D: 34% S: 0, R: 0
- Play some notes without any filter applied.
- Enjoy!

If you look at the waveform, +75 init phase is where the highest volume is reached the fastest in DUNE 2.

I'm also looking forward to an example of a psy bass that cannot be made in DUNE 2. I think it can be done.

[Gamma-UT]

I've clipped a very short sample from Ajja's Bebopper and isolated one bass hit as well as a single k-b-b-b beat with only minimal background FX (a short spy-squelch on the third and fourth of the 16th notes). The waveform is below. I look at that and wonder whether that's straight out of a synth or has made a small diversion via a sampler or it's been printed and aligned in the DAW's own timeline.

Either way, careful use of phase for the waveform seems to be the key to this one much more than envelope shape in order to get the hard attack from the falling sawtooth waveform at the beginning of each note (and possibly without an ultrafast attack looking at the height of that first peak). My guess is a short release for the final full cycle so that the bass mostly gets out of the way for the next hit, using some very careful control over MIDI timing if it's done straight from the synth.

bebopper-kbquarter.png

bebopper-beat.zip

Full track:

[chk071]

The problem with phase retriggering is that it changes the character of the sound, and leads to phasing, when you detune the oscillators, and set the sustain to a low value. Hence it won't work for every sound.

I think I'll record a sound later, so it's more obvious what is meant (snap).

[recursive one]

Thanks for your technical insights, guys! Ofc i am aware about the phase retrigger thing and how to switch it on in dune. I also tried setting different init phase values from modmatrix, and also different wavetables besides the va section. I am not saying that making psy bass in dune is impossible but for some reason sylenth sounds better and sits in the mix easier. Maybe it has nothing to do with the envelopes whatsoever.

[cytospur]

Remember that you can use the Amp and Filter envelopes as mod matrix sources to change the curvature of individual elements of each envelope as destinations.

[cytospur]

Remember that you can use the Amp and Filter envelopes as mod matrix sources to change the curvature of individual elements of each envelope as destinations.

[Teksonik]

I've come to the conclusion that DUNE 2 is just too sophisticated for the inexperienced user. Most of the complaints made against it are simply a lack of skills and understanding by the complainant.

If DUNE 2 is too much for you then there are simple synths like Sylenth 1. Just use those........