DUNE2 vs Sylenth1

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Dune2 or Sylenth1?

Dune2
179
74%
Sylenth1
64
26%
 
Total votes: 243

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DUNE 3$199.00Buy Sylenth1

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Gamma-UT wrote:I've clipped a very short sample from Ajja's Bebopper and isolated one bass hit as well as a single k-b-b-b beat with only minimal background FX (a short spy-squelch on the third and fourth of the 16th notes). The waveform is below. I look at that and wonder whether that's straight out of a synth or has made a small diversion via a sampler or it's been printed and aligned in the DAW's own timeline.

Either way, careful use of phase for the waveform seems to be the key to this one much more than envelope shape in order to get the hard attack from the falling sawtooth waveform at the beginning of each note (and possibly without an ultrafast attack looking at the height of that first peak). My guess is a short release for the final full cycle so that the bass mostly gets out of the way for the next hit, using some very careful control over MIDI timing if it's done straight from the synth.
bebopper-kbquarter.png
bebopper-beat.zip
Full track:
Thanks for the explanation. I always wonder what they mean by snappy! Now I get it, as I rare listen to this genre. Judging from the track above, i believe everything must be super snappy! (Too snappy for me).

Although I have noticed that some synths have fast attack, but personally I like it less snappy with slower tempo but that would make it Disco I guess :hihi:
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.

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Teksonik wrote:I've come to the conclusion that DUNE 2 is just too sophisticated for the inexperienced user. Most of the complaints made against it are simply a lack of skills and understanding by the complainant.
Le bullshit, monsieur. :P
Last edited by chk071 on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gamma-UT wrote:
Full track:
How old is that? Sounds exactly like Cosmosis from 20 years ago....

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AnX wrote:
Gamma-UT wrote:
Full track:
How old is that? Sounds exactly like Cosmosis from 20 years ago....
A couple of years old I think. I picked it out because I've heard a few psytrance fans rate Ajja's work. The genre, at least the full-on version, hasn't moved on all that much in terms of what's in it. But the production has changed from what I recall of the mid-90s stuff.

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Gamma-UT wrote:
AnX wrote:
Gamma-UT wrote:
Full track:
How old is that? Sounds exactly like Cosmosis from 20 years ago....
A couple of years old I think. I picked it out because I've heard a few psytrance fans rate Ajja's work. The genre, at least the full-on version, hasn't moved on all that much in terms of what's in it. But the production has changed from what I recall of the mid-90s stuff.
I remember one of the blokes from Cosmosis did a tutorial on basslines way back... i'll see if i can find it. (He also has some presets for Albino)

Edit:

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Here are two sound examples of what i'd consider "snappiness", first Monark, then Dune 2:

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/monark-snap

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/dune-ii-snap

Note that i took the filters with IMO best resonance behavior for this example in Dune 2 already, the Expander 4 pole filter, plus i applied "analog" style envelope behavior. If i took the "normal" 2- or 4-pole Clean filter, and didn't turn on analog envelopes, the difference would be way more drastic. In fact, Dune 2 isn't doing too bad this way, but still, Monark is 1. beefier, with more low end, and more oomph when you close the cutoff, or envelope amount, 2. there's more "attack", or whatever you want to call it, and Dune 2 also seems a bit weak in comparison, and the resonance sounds a bit "dry", and blunt. Note that these are (of course) subtleties, and, if Dune 2 is doing well enough for you for most sounds (it certainly does), you don't have to care about it.

All i can say is that the analog envelopes improved a lot of the envelope behavior of Dune 2, and also, the Expander filters, which, as far as i can tell, have been introduced with 2.5, also help a lot. I still do think, Spire, or Sylenth1 have a more "pleasing" pluck sound. IMO, YMMV, etc.

Note also that these are not "real world" examples, i just made them extreme to show what i mean with snappiness. Envelopes also prove quite important for plucky sounds, which don't have such fast decay times. The sounds used also don't sound the same, sorry for that. I guess you get the picture though.

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viewtopic.php?t=230052

Edit: that link should have gone into my last post...

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I think I see what you mean now chk071. At this extreme setting (a very fast arpeggiated pluck), DUNE 2 is lacking 'definition' or 'punch', for lack of a better word, even with the analog button on, audio rate, expander filter, etc. Legend is way better in that aspect, though. I think. I'll keep testing to see if it's not user error.
Last edited by Yorrrrrr on Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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True. Admittedly, it was a unfair comparison though anyway. I would have compared it to Spire, but, Spire just doesn't have a analog sounding enough, or resonant enough filter, which would be comparable with Dune 2's. I figure it'd be at least remotely in the same ballpark as Monark, if it had though. Anyway, my conclusion is that Dune 2 is doing a lot better now with the analog envelopes, and the Expander filter. I actually happen to quite like that one.

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Dune 2 can this too.....use the MSEG at audio rate, not the "slow" envelopes :D
If i have time i try to make a demo sound as well....

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chk071 wrote:Here are two sound examples of what i'd consider "snappiness", first Monark, then Dune 2:

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/monark-snap

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/dune-ii-snap

Note that i took the filters with IMO best resonance behavior for this example in Dune 2 already, the Expander 4 pole filter, plus i applied "analog" style envelope behavior. If i took the "normal" 2- or 4-pole Clean filter, and didn't turn on analog envelopes, the difference would be way more drastic. In fact, Dune 2 isn't doing too bad this way, but still, Monark is 1. beefier, with more low end, and more oomph when you close the cutoff, or envelope amount, 2. there's more "attack", or whatever you want to call it, and Dune 2 also seems a bit weak in comparison, and the resonance sounds a bit "dry", and blunt. Note that these are (of course) subtleties, and, if Dune 2 is doing well enough for you for most sounds (it certainly does), you don't have to care about it.

All i can say is that the analog envelopes improved a lot of the envelope behavior of Dune 2, and also, the Expander filters, which, as far as i can tell, have been introduced with 2.5, also help a lot. I still do think, Spire, or Sylenth1 have a more "pleasing" pluck sound. IMO, YMMV, etc.

Note also that these are not "real world" examples, i just made them extreme to show what i mean with snappiness. Envelopes also prove quite important for plucky sounds, which don't have such fast decay times. The sounds used also don't sound the same, sorry for that. I guess you get the picture though.
Would you offer me the exact midi file and i will see how snappy i can make Dune 2 :D

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Just chained some random notes, don't worry about it. :D The important thing is the filter decay stage, and high resonance.

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Further testing..MSEGs can sound just as 'snappy' as you wish...playing with the shapes of the curves, alongside with audio rate, the phases, etc. And the expander filter, of course, as it has one of the most prominent resonance. Maybe DUNE 2's normal envelopes are so freakishly fast, it's kind of swallowing the transients, the punch, IDK...Maybe the ranges differ between synths, IDK, so, zero decay on X synth is not the same as zero decay on another..All I know is DUNE 2's MSEG's can go down to the milliseconds level. Don't know the normal ones, as the readouts in DUNE 2 are percentages.

Maybe, after all the thing has nothing to do with the envelopes, at all, but the filters. The difference is big when using the expander filters, in comparison with the default 'clean' ones.

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Sylenth1 WINS! :)
Google search hits -
Sylenth1 "All" - 1,210,000 Videos: 82,900 Sylenth1 lennardigital.com soundbanks: 384,000
Dune 2 synapse-audio.com "All" - 74,300 Videos: 3,050 Dune 2 synapse-audio.com soundbanks: 54,300

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C-note wrote:Sylenth1 WINS! :)
Google search hits -
Sylenth1 "All" - 1,210,000 Videos: 82,900 Sylenth1 lennardigital.com soundbanks: 384,000
Dune 2 synapse-audio.com "All" - 74,300 Videos: 3,050 Dune 2 synapse-audio.com soundbanks: 54,300
Maybe that's because S1 is 19366 years old??

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