My girlfriend hates my music making
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- KVRAF
- 6467 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
This is fight you cannot win. It is not about your music but that you spend your time on something that takes attention away from her. And this is not necessarily bad news, because it shows that she wants to be together with you. Otherwise she wouldn't care. Just talk about it and get to the core, namely some agreements abouts when to do what. I made that deal with my missus 15 years ago. Every day we have a couple of hours doing exactly what we want, rest is devoted to marriage and family.
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- KVRian
- 1005 posts since 1 Apr, 2002 from Spain
It´s true indeed that a control issue is mostly the reason for behavour like this. It´s funny, if you watch a hollywood film, the wife is always being supportive to whatever time the man needs to spend on being who he is, and we´re raised with slogans like "behind every great man there´s a woman", which should have the addition ".. and behind every lousy man there´s a woman too".
But no, it really doesn´t have to be this way. It´s correct that you´ll need to do some organized compromising in terms of your time, but it´s also important that you just insist on being the music guy: At some point she´ll just give up and let it be. Nomatter what a perfect man you are, a woman will always try to change you. And if there´s nothing better she can change you into, she´ll go for anything that takes away your attention paid to her.
I do get occassional complaints about my own time spent in front of the computer or my nicotine chewing gums, but the more my wife sees that it doesn´t work to complain, the more it´s getting accepted. It used to be much worse.
You can also find things that she does wrong and confront her with them: Being disorganized, moody, messy etcetc. that you probably accept, being the good guy that you are. But, some people only learn things the hard way, and if you nag back, she may start to grab that it really sucks to not be allowed to be who you are in your home, and that it´s awfully disrespectful to critisize what´s actually an important quality of yours - whether if she likes your music or not.
You could maybe also invite a couple over that you both know well, for whom things seem to work better and bring up the subject of how happy they are, being who they are. You could even take the wifes stand and say something like "So, you don´t have a problem with that Garreth spends 8 hours a week watching football?", and maybe she´ll say "I hate football, but I know that me accepting him for who he is makes him the nicest man I could ever dream of, and besides I get to fiddle with things that I like which are not interesting for him."
.. your wife needs to be present obviously, and then you can talk about it after they´re gone. Your wife may say something like "sounds like you should find another wife" where you can say "well, I understand exactly the feeling you have there cause that´s how I feel treated every day but I have chosen to be with you for all the qualities that you have but also for the differences that you have from me, and it would be nice if you would start showing the same spirit for our relationship, cause I´m convinced that you love me as much as I love you."
That for sure won´t give you a hug, but it opens up a new chapter where you´re not anymore a french bulldog she can put a winter jacket on, and may bring more fights that at the end leads to a more balanced relationship. She will never go Hollywood and say "you´re goddamn right sweetheart", cause she sounds like someone who´s too proud for that, but things will change. And if not, it´s going to end and if so it was ment to be that way and all she´ll be happy with is a man who love to be dominated or one she can fight with every day.
For some people, the only thing that really makes them happy is a completely disharmonic relationship, and they rarely understand it themselfes, nor do they want anyone to come and tell it - especially not their partner!
Fingers crossed mate
Best Regards
Roman Empire
PS: I just listened to your music and I see it having potential to make you money. I could easily imagine your stuff in movies or survivor shows, documentaries about animal cruelty (!) etc. Maybe you could team up secretly with an animal cruelty film maker and offer your skills, and when it´s all finished and you can show it to your gf, she´ll understand what you´re made of!
But no, it really doesn´t have to be this way. It´s correct that you´ll need to do some organized compromising in terms of your time, but it´s also important that you just insist on being the music guy: At some point she´ll just give up and let it be. Nomatter what a perfect man you are, a woman will always try to change you. And if there´s nothing better she can change you into, she´ll go for anything that takes away your attention paid to her.
I do get occassional complaints about my own time spent in front of the computer or my nicotine chewing gums, but the more my wife sees that it doesn´t work to complain, the more it´s getting accepted. It used to be much worse.
You can also find things that she does wrong and confront her with them: Being disorganized, moody, messy etcetc. that you probably accept, being the good guy that you are. But, some people only learn things the hard way, and if you nag back, she may start to grab that it really sucks to not be allowed to be who you are in your home, and that it´s awfully disrespectful to critisize what´s actually an important quality of yours - whether if she likes your music or not.
You could maybe also invite a couple over that you both know well, for whom things seem to work better and bring up the subject of how happy they are, being who they are. You could even take the wifes stand and say something like "So, you don´t have a problem with that Garreth spends 8 hours a week watching football?", and maybe she´ll say "I hate football, but I know that me accepting him for who he is makes him the nicest man I could ever dream of, and besides I get to fiddle with things that I like which are not interesting for him."
.. your wife needs to be present obviously, and then you can talk about it after they´re gone. Your wife may say something like "sounds like you should find another wife" where you can say "well, I understand exactly the feeling you have there cause that´s how I feel treated every day but I have chosen to be with you for all the qualities that you have but also for the differences that you have from me, and it would be nice if you would start showing the same spirit for our relationship, cause I´m convinced that you love me as much as I love you."
That for sure won´t give you a hug, but it opens up a new chapter where you´re not anymore a french bulldog she can put a winter jacket on, and may bring more fights that at the end leads to a more balanced relationship. She will never go Hollywood and say "you´re goddamn right sweetheart", cause she sounds like someone who´s too proud for that, but things will change. And if not, it´s going to end and if so it was ment to be that way and all she´ll be happy with is a man who love to be dominated or one she can fight with every day.
For some people, the only thing that really makes them happy is a completely disharmonic relationship, and they rarely understand it themselfes, nor do they want anyone to come and tell it - especially not their partner!
Fingers crossed mate
Best Regards
Roman Empire
PS: I just listened to your music and I see it having potential to make you money. I could easily imagine your stuff in movies or survivor shows, documentaries about animal cruelty (!) etc. Maybe you could team up secretly with an animal cruelty film maker and offer your skills, and when it´s all finished and you can show it to your gf, she´ll understand what you´re made of!
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- KVRAF
- 25849 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
Their? How many gf's you got ?boriskarloff wrote:I'm desperateI love my girlfriend but some of their habits makes me angry.
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- KVRAF
- 1676 posts since 17 Dec, 2002 from Yorkshire
You need some time to realise she's a twat. Simply keep doing what you are doing and that day will come eventually. After that point you will have no regrets. Good luck.
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
Holy crap there are some seriously unwise and downright socially defective bits of "advise" in here.
You might want to seriously reconsider asking for relationship advice on a forum filled with mostly tech guys. How many women contributed to this thread so far? The only way you could get worse advise was if you asked a "men's rights activist" or "pickup artist" forum. Asking men for advise on relating to women is only 50% of the job.
That said, there's good advise in here, too. Try to focus on the comments that are giving relationship management advise, and not the ones giving relationship destruction advise.
My opinion is similar:
It sounds like the issues between you have way more to do with a need for mutual respect, shared responsibilities, attention & focus balance, and mutual accommodations; not your music.
Personally, if a companion of mine told me that my efforts at making art (of whatever kind) were "bullshit" and a "waste of time"... well i wouldn't have gotten involved with someone like that in the first place. Frankly, it would be extremely wounding if a companion said that to me, because:
1. the arts are part of who and what I am. Telling me "that thing that's important to you is bullshit" is pretty much like telling me "I don't respect or even like you". And yeah, men have feelings.
[How would your girlfriend feel if you did that to her? Don't do it (!!), but maybe ask her the question in a non-accusatory manner.]
2. And because that would mean the woman I got involved with was not the woman she claimed to be at the start of our relationship (I've experienced this already and it's awful, but I'm older and less naive/more cautious now).
I agree with any piece of advise that suggests you spend time having serious and sincere conversation with your girlfriend about who each of you are, why you're together, what you expect from each other, and what you're each willing to compromise on to have harmony. Do it in a loving manner (calm and respectful, not defensive, blaming, or otherwise aggressive).
As for the "we've been together for five years and she doesn't think about sex" topic... Wow... that's a very serious relationship problem right there on its own. I highly recommend including your sexual relations as part of the relationship discussion.
There are all kinds of reasons why sex falls apart in relationships, but it is never a normal thing for couples to stop having sex (if they're not asexual in the first place), and it's almost always a bad idea to let that issue fester (well, letting any issue fester is a bad idea).
It might be a million things on both sides, so I'm not going to make any prescriptions here. Talk to her. Don't make accusations. Ask questions. Sincerely consider her responses and don't let your ego get involved (yes, many men think they're pleasing their women sex partners when they aren't!).
Relationship partners, especially those cohabiting, can and *should* have their own interests. It's best when we can share our interests with our partners, but it's not realistic to expect it as a norm. If you can find ways to join your partner in her interests, then do so. You might learn and grow from it, and your relationship might grow and strengthen as a result.
Here're some samples from my life:
1. I started paying attention to classic literature as part of loving my one girlfriend. I wanted to know what she liked and feel that from my own perspective, and wanted to be closer to her via shared appreciation.
2. I got into photography and shared some photography classes with another girlfriend. It was (for me) very bonding to grow these interests and skills together, and especially with her helping me with the parts I had trouble thinking through (I suck at math & calculation).
3. I started learning the two languages that she (the same girlfriend as above) was learning. Learning language is like learning new ways of thinking. This was a bonding experience (for me; I have no idea what it was for her because ... long story; not all relationships work).
4. My current companion isn't a musician. Though she definitely loves music, she almost only ever listens to music when her companions are selecting and playing it. She sees value in the interests of her companions and is supportive of those interests, so listening to, and developing appreciation for the music of her companions is a motivated interest for her. Being supportive is the primary way that she demonstrates her affection and love for her companions. But it's not balanced. Her companions mostly make all the selections.
One day, I asked her to show me the music she likes (via playing stuff on YouTube). We sat together and listened to music. Discussed it. Shared in HER musical interests. We never did that before. After years of being involved, we never sat down and played music back and forth fir each other, discussing what she likes, why she likes it, when she first heard it, etc.
The result: she expressed great appreciation for the day. We felt mutual excitement and she felt that her interests were listened to and appreciated. I think it was a bonding experience, and I think it was balanced. It sure seems that way.
5. My years of patience and kindness toward my companion's sexual frustrations and physical discomforts helped resolve a lifelong frustration with sex.
The relationship result: her sexual (and emotional) bond to me is very strong.
6. My companion is deeply invested in animal and environmental justice. When we met, we were already on the same page, but she was way more invested in it than I was at first. We've gotten closer over the years in terms of animal rights and environmental issues because I've learned a lot from her. I've continued to analyze my own thinking and behavior and I've used her as a way to measure myself against the rest of the world (I found myself wanting to be more like her, rather than like the majority, and I found myself lacking, in a constructive analysis type of way). I went from being vegetarian to being vegan (like her) because it made sense to me, in terms of how I feel about animals (and environmental sustainability, but mostly about justice).
The important point here is: It really made her feel closer to me when I moved myself toward *her* ideological core.
I hope you can find something useful in those examples.
Note: that list isn't meant to credit myself with how accommodating I am to my companions. My current companion helped save my life. I effing owe her!
A companion I had concurrently with her (it was ethical and they were both fully aware and friends with each other) also helped save my life (very long story). I lost the one companion due to the strain of helping me get through a hard time. She suffered to help me, and I was not able to accommodate her enough to maintain her romantic feelings for me. She lost them (we're still close friends). But, again, I owe them both my life.
The one who's still with me puts up with a lot from me. I suspect many other people wouldn't, at least not without having some compelling interest in me, haha. She understands what makes me the unhappy person I am right now, she knows it's not directed at her, not her fault, I don't blame her for any of it, and she knows (and has proof) that I can be much better in better circumstances.
She accommodates me in many ways.
We also conflict over mundane domestic things (which is one of the biggest reasons we do not live together).
Now, to be sure, my companion is probably *very* different from your girlfriend. My companion's sense of self worth and identity is rooted in how useful she feels to her companions. She is a service-oriented person (I am too, but to a much smaller degree). She is so accommodating that she actually puts herself last (this is bad). She was raised with a good amount of emotional support and fewer extreme experiences than most people I've known, but I think she still took on some kind of caretaker role as a result of her childhood, and it stuck. She is not remotely interested in being a parent (luckily; neither am I).
Your girlfriend sounds like she has been raised with a lot of practical demands put on her. Practicality and money sound like they're very important to her, from your comments, and might've been drilled into her by parents and/or extreme life experiences.
I'm not going to analyze her further, because that's risky. But *you* should really learn about what has shaped her as a person; why she thinks the way she thinks, feels what she feels, and behaves as she behaves. The more you understand her makeup as a human being, the more likely you are to be able to accommodate her needs and thinking, and generally communicate better.
You need to know the same things about yourself. What makes you who and what you are? How do these things compare to her? How can you both accommodate each other's differences?
Also, most relationships have serious bumps between the 5 and 7 year mark. Limerence has worn off (usually by year three), needing to be replaced with the choice to be committed. When the monotony of routine sets in, it makes the loss of limerence even more stark. "I don't feel like I felt when we first got together". You realize that all the things about your companion that you thought you could put up with (because "hey, that's no big deal") are actually grating on you and becoming a big deal.
This is normal and every relationship has it. The difference between successful and unsuccessful relationships is what you do to deal with these natural changes. You both either choose to work it out, or you choose not to. The reasoning and methods are unique to every situation.
Good luck.
You might want to seriously reconsider asking for relationship advice on a forum filled with mostly tech guys. How many women contributed to this thread so far? The only way you could get worse advise was if you asked a "men's rights activist" or "pickup artist" forum. Asking men for advise on relating to women is only 50% of the job.
That said, there's good advise in here, too. Try to focus on the comments that are giving relationship management advise, and not the ones giving relationship destruction advise.
I second that. Very good stuff.JerGoertz wrote:whyterabbyt has some good advice here.
My opinion is similar:
It sounds like the issues between you have way more to do with a need for mutual respect, shared responsibilities, attention & focus balance, and mutual accommodations; not your music.
Personally, if a companion of mine told me that my efforts at making art (of whatever kind) were "bullshit" and a "waste of time"... well i wouldn't have gotten involved with someone like that in the first place. Frankly, it would be extremely wounding if a companion said that to me, because:
1. the arts are part of who and what I am. Telling me "that thing that's important to you is bullshit" is pretty much like telling me "I don't respect or even like you". And yeah, men have feelings.
[How would your girlfriend feel if you did that to her? Don't do it (!!), but maybe ask her the question in a non-accusatory manner.]
2. And because that would mean the woman I got involved with was not the woman she claimed to be at the start of our relationship (I've experienced this already and it's awful, but I'm older and less naive/more cautious now).
I agree with any piece of advise that suggests you spend time having serious and sincere conversation with your girlfriend about who each of you are, why you're together, what you expect from each other, and what you're each willing to compromise on to have harmony. Do it in a loving manner (calm and respectful, not defensive, blaming, or otherwise aggressive).
As for the "we've been together for five years and she doesn't think about sex" topic... Wow... that's a very serious relationship problem right there on its own. I highly recommend including your sexual relations as part of the relationship discussion.
There are all kinds of reasons why sex falls apart in relationships, but it is never a normal thing for couples to stop having sex (if they're not asexual in the first place), and it's almost always a bad idea to let that issue fester (well, letting any issue fester is a bad idea).
It might be a million things on both sides, so I'm not going to make any prescriptions here. Talk to her. Don't make accusations. Ask questions. Sincerely consider her responses and don't let your ego get involved (yes, many men think they're pleasing their women sex partners when they aren't!).
Relationship partners, especially those cohabiting, can and *should* have their own interests. It's best when we can share our interests with our partners, but it's not realistic to expect it as a norm. If you can find ways to join your partner in her interests, then do so. You might learn and grow from it, and your relationship might grow and strengthen as a result.
Here're some samples from my life:
1. I started paying attention to classic literature as part of loving my one girlfriend. I wanted to know what she liked and feel that from my own perspective, and wanted to be closer to her via shared appreciation.
2. I got into photography and shared some photography classes with another girlfriend. It was (for me) very bonding to grow these interests and skills together, and especially with her helping me with the parts I had trouble thinking through (I suck at math & calculation).
3. I started learning the two languages that she (the same girlfriend as above) was learning. Learning language is like learning new ways of thinking. This was a bonding experience (for me; I have no idea what it was for her because ... long story; not all relationships work).
4. My current companion isn't a musician. Though she definitely loves music, she almost only ever listens to music when her companions are selecting and playing it. She sees value in the interests of her companions and is supportive of those interests, so listening to, and developing appreciation for the music of her companions is a motivated interest for her. Being supportive is the primary way that she demonstrates her affection and love for her companions. But it's not balanced. Her companions mostly make all the selections.
One day, I asked her to show me the music she likes (via playing stuff on YouTube). We sat together and listened to music. Discussed it. Shared in HER musical interests. We never did that before. After years of being involved, we never sat down and played music back and forth fir each other, discussing what she likes, why she likes it, when she first heard it, etc.
The result: she expressed great appreciation for the day. We felt mutual excitement and she felt that her interests were listened to and appreciated. I think it was a bonding experience, and I think it was balanced. It sure seems that way.
5. My years of patience and kindness toward my companion's sexual frustrations and physical discomforts helped resolve a lifelong frustration with sex.
The relationship result: her sexual (and emotional) bond to me is very strong.
6. My companion is deeply invested in animal and environmental justice. When we met, we were already on the same page, but she was way more invested in it than I was at first. We've gotten closer over the years in terms of animal rights and environmental issues because I've learned a lot from her. I've continued to analyze my own thinking and behavior and I've used her as a way to measure myself against the rest of the world (I found myself wanting to be more like her, rather than like the majority, and I found myself lacking, in a constructive analysis type of way). I went from being vegetarian to being vegan (like her) because it made sense to me, in terms of how I feel about animals (and environmental sustainability, but mostly about justice).
The important point here is: It really made her feel closer to me when I moved myself toward *her* ideological core.
I hope you can find something useful in those examples.
Note: that list isn't meant to credit myself with how accommodating I am to my companions. My current companion helped save my life. I effing owe her!
A companion I had concurrently with her (it was ethical and they were both fully aware and friends with each other) also helped save my life (very long story). I lost the one companion due to the strain of helping me get through a hard time. She suffered to help me, and I was not able to accommodate her enough to maintain her romantic feelings for me. She lost them (we're still close friends). But, again, I owe them both my life.
The one who's still with me puts up with a lot from me. I suspect many other people wouldn't, at least not without having some compelling interest in me, haha. She understands what makes me the unhappy person I am right now, she knows it's not directed at her, not her fault, I don't blame her for any of it, and she knows (and has proof) that I can be much better in better circumstances.
She accommodates me in many ways.
We also conflict over mundane domestic things (which is one of the biggest reasons we do not live together).
Now, to be sure, my companion is probably *very* different from your girlfriend. My companion's sense of self worth and identity is rooted in how useful she feels to her companions. She is a service-oriented person (I am too, but to a much smaller degree). She is so accommodating that she actually puts herself last (this is bad). She was raised with a good amount of emotional support and fewer extreme experiences than most people I've known, but I think she still took on some kind of caretaker role as a result of her childhood, and it stuck. She is not remotely interested in being a parent (luckily; neither am I).
Your girlfriend sounds like she has been raised with a lot of practical demands put on her. Practicality and money sound like they're very important to her, from your comments, and might've been drilled into her by parents and/or extreme life experiences.
I'm not going to analyze her further, because that's risky. But *you* should really learn about what has shaped her as a person; why she thinks the way she thinks, feels what she feels, and behaves as she behaves. The more you understand her makeup as a human being, the more likely you are to be able to accommodate her needs and thinking, and generally communicate better.
You need to know the same things about yourself. What makes you who and what you are? How do these things compare to her? How can you both accommodate each other's differences?
Also, most relationships have serious bumps between the 5 and 7 year mark. Limerence has worn off (usually by year three), needing to be replaced with the choice to be committed. When the monotony of routine sets in, it makes the loss of limerence even more stark. "I don't feel like I felt when we first got together". You realize that all the things about your companion that you thought you could put up with (because "hey, that's no big deal") are actually grating on you and becoming a big deal.
This is normal and every relationship has it. The difference between successful and unsuccessful relationships is what you do to deal with these natural changes. You both either choose to work it out, or you choose not to. The reasoning and methods are unique to every situation.
Good luck.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
A few aggressive and immature advices about women in this thread. Some posters must have had very hurtful experiences of love.
I love my woman enough to choose her and the family above all if I had a gun to my head. Fortunately one point of our love is that she would never do that to me. So if it really was an issue that couldn't be compromised about, I would just let her get some steam off about it, and then make music anyway. She would eventually accept it and at worst find other things to disagree about. To me this is all part of marriage. The coin is always twosided but love is about letting the good side win at the end of the day.
I love my woman enough to choose her and the family above all if I had a gun to my head. Fortunately one point of our love is that she would never do that to me. So if it really was an issue that couldn't be compromised about, I would just let her get some steam off about it, and then make music anyway. She would eventually accept it and at worst find other things to disagree about. To me this is all part of marriage. The coin is always twosided but love is about letting the good side win at the end of the day.
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- KVRAF
- 44131 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from clown world
Holy crap there are some seriously unwise and downright socially defective bits of "advise" in here.
This is the same method MJ used when he was working on Anthony Marinelli's Thriller.
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
Agreed. And "the good side" is the health of the relationshipIncarnateX wrote: (...) To me this is all part of marriage. The coin is always twosided but love is about letting the good side win at the end of the day.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
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- KVRian
- 1121 posts since 11 Sep, 2008 from UK
I contributed.. but my advice was overshadowed by sage pearls of wisdom like 'she's a twat'Jace-BeOS wrote: How many women contributed to this thread so far?
This thread serves to remind me what a macho (sometimes verging on mysoginistic) place KVR can be!
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
On other forum there's a thread: "My boyfriend hates my animals caring."
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
Yeah, one of the girls on other forum is saying like: "Who needs men, get yourself a horse. 
"
"This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? ShawnG
ShawnG