DUNE2 vs Sylenth1

[chk071]

Sylenth1 self oscillating filters sound fine to me. But I'm using version 3 right now. Maybe they've changed to ZDF.

Nope. As far as Lennard stated, there has been nothing changed in Sylenth1's sound engine, or filters. IMO, the Sylenth1 filters are decent, but not up to par to the current ZDF filters in analog modelled synths. There are definitely good sounding non-ZDF filters, but, it seems like the really "analog" sounding ones are indeed the ones using ZDF (the resonant behavior definitely is better, when done right). Of course, that has nothing to do with the general filter characteristic. You can still do great sounding non-ZDF filters, and crappy sounding ZDF filters.

From my knowledge, these synths do have ZDF filters: Diva, Hive, RePro-1, Dune 2, Antidote, Tyrell N6, TAL-Noisemaker (the state variable filters only, the others not), TAL-U-NO-LX, TAL-BassLine-101, Diversion, Synthmaster (the recent ones), Xils Lab's synths, Monark, Blaukraut Charlatan, D16 LuSH-101, Tone2 Saurus... probably a lot of other ones too.

[Ghost Dog]

Sylenth1 self oscillating filters sound fine to me. But I'm using version 3 right now. Maybe they've changed to ZDF.

I don't think so.

That filter is just designed well.

[egbert101]

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[fluffy_little_something]

Sylenth1 self oscillating filters sound fine to me. But I'm using version 3 right now. Maybe they've changed to ZDF.

I don't think so.

That filter is just designed well.

Damn straight. As fluffy says, sings like a bird, or R2D2

Yes, with the random wave

Someone please post an audio showing how it sounds with 0df filters, just so that we know how lacking our old, 0df-deprived synths are

[chk071]

Check out the filters in TAL-Noisemakers, the non state variable filters. Almost on par with ZDF filters IMO. It's definitely possible to get really near, but, the question is if that makes sense for a developer anyway, if he can just do some cheap (meaning, not very CPU heavy) ZDF filters, and have all the advantages those bring with them. I'm all for ZDF filters, if it doesn't mean that it slaughters your CPU. Dune 2 is a good example that it is possible without taxing your CPU to the max. Gotta be a good compromise for me.

[chk071]

Sylenth1 self oscillating filters sound fine to me. But I'm using version 3 right now. Maybe they've changed to ZDF.

I don't think so.

That filter is just designed well.

Damn straight. As fluffy says, sings like a bird, or R2D2

Yes, with the random wave

Someone please post an audio showing how it sounds with 0df filters, just so that we know how lacking our old, odf-deprived synths are

I've posted some sound examples of the snappiness of Monark and Dune 2 earlier. Try to do that with Sylenth1 (or, at least in the same quality), good luck. AFAIC, the resonance in Sylenth1 is rather some ear piercing howling, than really what you get in a good analog, or analog modelled filter. That howling is apparent in Spire's filter resonance too, for example.

[egbert101]

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[fluffy_little_something]

Sylenth1 self oscillating filters sound fine to me. But I'm using version 3 right now. Maybe they've changed to ZDF.

I don't think so.

That filter is just designed well.

Damn straight. As fluffy says, sings like a bird, or R2D2

Yes, with the random wave

Someone please post an audio showing how it sounds with 0df filters, just so that we know how lacking our old, odf-deprived synths are

I've posted some sound examples of the snappiness of Monark and Dune 2 earlier. Try to do that with Sylenth1 (or, at least in the same quality), good luck. AFAIC, the resonance in Sylenth1 is rather some ear piercing howling, than really what you get in a good analog, or analog modelled filter. That howling is apparent in Spire's filter resonance too, for example.

I don't know what you mean, it is simply a sine wave with a slight bell character, there is no ear-piercing howling. Maybe I am doing something wrong...

[chk071]

Close and open the cutoff, then you should hear it too. It's rather a howling resonance, while on other synths, especially those with ZDF filter, it's rather... well... a high bleep. In Sylenth1, and in Spire also, it rather sounds whistling.

Try Tyrell N6, or TAL-Noisemaker, they rather have the character i was talking about.

[egbert101]

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[fluffy_little_something]

If you throw a sine wave through Sylenth1 and check it through Voxengo SPAN, it shows some extra harmonics in Sylenth when the filters resonate. But they're between -40 and -60 db, so I don't hear any howling. Just the original sine wave oscillator and the filter resonating.

Those extra harmonics might be due to the Drive function, which doesn't seem to switch off, even at 0, but they're not audible to me.

Why do you have the original sine in there?
Have you turned the volume of osc 1 to zero?

[egbert101]

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[Cinebient]

F.e. here is a Dune 2 audio rate modulation.
OSC 1 is a saw, the OSC 2 (a 2 unison triangle slightly detuned and with sync full on, +12 semitones) is modulating the filter cutoff (expander 4P with resonance 100%).
First you hear it in low cpu mode, then the same when i turn it to audio rate mode...
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/d ... modulation

[NerdMcBoon]

ZDF filters don't necessarily sound "better", but they are needed if you want a somewhat accurate emulation of analog circuits, as there is of course (almost) no delay in the feedback path of analog filters, while non-ZDF filters of course always have at least one sample delay in their feedback path.

[chk071]

F.e. here is a Dune 2 audio rate modulation.
OSC 1 is a saw, the OSC 2 (a 2 unison triangle slightly detuned and with sync full on, +12 semitones) is modulating the filter cutoff (expander 4P with resonance 100%).
First you hear it in low cpu mode, then the same when i turn it to audio rate mode...
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/d ... tion</span>

Thanks, that's a great example. First sounds like it's being bit reduced (well, it's exactly what happens when the modulation is not in audio rate, is it? ), and the second part rather sounds like filter FM, with almost vowel filter character.