Who's getting the new Wave Alchemy Revolution Drum machine?

[jbuonacc]

well, yeah. lol.

seeing as they already give you the ability to do so, i'd imagine that they'd allow for this with these "extra pages that don't yet exist".

[Vortifex]

..

[electro]

I already have a .rar file with all the samples from virtually every drum machine that's ever been made, including (iirc) all those used in Revolution, so for me it would be a waste of money. I like Wave Alchemy though and own Drum Tools 2, their samples are generally very good.

They made it very easy to mix and match instruments from different drum machine and they probably also used the same recording level throughout the entire project.

[Sounds Outside]

Yes, I believe you are correct. Kontakt 5/ Kontakt player 5 V5.6.5 64 bit is the only version that will load the revolution library. Well that really sucks. I hate these libraries being forced into native instruments stuff. I wish WA would have made their own "true" version of this product. So i will confirm....UNLESS YOU ARE USING A 64BIT VERSION OF KONTAKT 5, THIS PRODUCT WILL NOT WORK (MAC/LOGIC).

I can understand your feeling towards wishing we had of made our own true version of the product but the truth is this would have been next to impossible for us outside of using Kontakt. Besides the fact that using Kontakt allowed us to develop this with many development concerns already taken care of (serial system, DSP effects, RAM mangement, etc.) my understanding through talking with numerous developers is that building an instrument like this outside of Kontakt would have required years more of development time. Revolution has been built entirely by us using no 3rd party assistance and that's important for us as it allows us to issue updates and respond to user requests quickly. I would have loved to have develop this as it's own plugin but unfortunately I've only been given one lifetime and it doesn't appear being a C++ programmer is going to be one of them this time around

Regarding 32-bit this is correct and sorry to hear this makes the product incompatible with your workflow. Please allow me to explain the reasons why this is the case ...

1) We are supporting the very latest version of Kontakt to take advantage of the larger GUI size available among other new features. In our opinion this makes a profound experience on the workflow and makes for a far stronger product than we could have created by using an earlier version.

2) The instrument can easily use over 500mb of RAM utilizing the tens of thousand of samples included in the instrument. On a 32-bit system users would easily run out of RAM and experience crashing if using other RAM intensive effects and instruments in a heavy session.

This all being said although we haven't tested the instrument on a 32-bit system the System Requirements for the latest version of Kontakt do list Windows 32 bit as an option. All modern Macs should have no problem running in 32 bit.

[Sounds Outside]

I'm trying to drag and drop midi but I can't figure out what you put your curser on to drag and drop. Maybe because I'm in demo mode while downloading the full version?
tia

Yes, as mentioned previously this can be accomplished by double clicking the "MIDI ->" button. In our next update we are going to look at further refining this graphic so it's easier to visually identify how MIDI drag and drop is accomplished.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I already have a .rar file with all the samples from virtually every drum machine that's ever been made, including (iirc) all those used in Revolution, so for me it would be a waste of money. I like Wave Alchemy though and own Drum Tools 2, their samples are generally very good.

I thought the same way, however going through hundreds of 909 kick samples for example to find just the right one is pretty annoying. The cool thing about this is that it has the actual knobs of the original so you can tweak it the same way you would have the original, or quickly try different versions of the recording as if you instantly switched the routing to a different signal path. That plus the quick workflow of having effects ready to go and easily switching out to other drum modules, the sequencer etc., makes this really appealing.

Though I will say again that that I wish the sequencer had additional pages of steps for those of us who like to program at 32nd note resolution. 4 bars just ain't enough. It will unfortunately mean that I would use the sequencer less than I would like, and it's one of the things I really like about it! Think you guys could add more steps at the next update along with the single drum presets?

[Sounds Outside]

What are some distinctions between this and Spark 2?

Not being a user of Spark 2 (although I admit it does look cool!) here are some of the main differences between Revolution and other sample based products ...

- Revolution uses round robin samples of every tone parameter of the analog machines. This means you can recreate the actual sound of the original machines. Unlike other sample based products which use a single (or static) sample for recreating a sound source. That one sample can sound good but if you want to change it's sound you must do so digitally and not with the (sampled) analog tone shaping that Revolution can provide.
- Revolution comes with a huge library (over 40,000 samples) from the original machines all recorded through a pristine chain of analog equipment. This involved picking the very best equipment possible, from the instrument cables to analog-to-digital converters, and ensuring everything was captured in the highest quality.
- The engine which powers Revolution is a powerful sound designer and beat programmer. The workflow was developed through years of user feedback and personal testing. You can try the demo out today to see how it compares to your expectations.
- Revolution features a deep level of hardware integration between Maschine and S-Series Keyboards. Users of any MIDI controller (such as Logic Remote and Ableton Push) can also take advantage of many of these features as well.

If there is anything in particular you're wondering about feel free to ask and I would be happy to provide more detailed information.

[Sounds Outside]

I'm talking about copying and pasting between sequencer pages within the same sequence, which don't exist, so it's not possible to paste into pages which don't exist. For example copy from steps 1-32 to steps 33-64.

You're right thought that the duplicate function is already there, which I'm sure would work if there were 64 steps over two pages as well.

If you press A3 on a MIDI keyboard or press the sequence duplicate function (found in between sequencer delete and duplicate - page 26 of the manual) you can copy between sequences. When enabled (blinking) your currently selected sequence will be copied to your next selected sequence.

[Echoes in the Attic]

What are some distinctions between this and Spark 2?

Not being a user of Spark 2 (although I admit it does look cool!) here are some of the main differences between Revolution and other sample based products ...

- Revolution uses round robin samples of every tone parameter of the analog machines. This means you can recreate the actual sound of the original machines. Unlike other sample based products which use a single (or static) sample for recreating a sound source. That one sample can sound good but if you want to change it's sound you must do so digitally and not with the (sampled) analog tone shaping that Revolution can provide.
- Revolution comes with a huge library (over 40,000 samples) from the original machines all recorded through a pristine chain of analog equipment. This involved picking the very best equipment possible, from the instrument cables to analog-to-digital converters, and ensuring everything was captured in the highest quality.
- The engine which powers Revolution is a powerful sound designer and beat programmer. The workflow was developed through years of user feedback and personal testing. You can try the demo out today to see how it compares to your expectations.
- Revolution features a deep level of hardware integration between Maschine and S-Series Keyboards. Users of any MIDI controller (such as Logic Remote and Ableton Push) can also take advantage of many of these features as well.

If there is anything in particular you're wondering about feel free to ask and I would be happy to provide more detailed information.

I would add that Spark to contains synthesis as well as sampling and is a more general drum machine. There are round robin functions but you wouldn't get the detail like in Revolution. Although Spark has vintage drum machines, they sound very analog. I actually quite like many of the kits in Spark but they are some of the worst emulations of the roland drum machines as far as authenticity. But still, lots of cool kits there. And I'm not sure how easy it is to load your own samples into Revolution. It doesn't really seem geared towards that.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I'm talking about copying and pasting between sequencer pages within the same sequence, which don't exist, so it's not possible to paste into pages which don't exist. For example copy from steps 1-32 to steps 33-64.

You're right thought that the duplicate function is already there, which I'm sure would work if there were 64 steps over two pages as well.

If you press A3 on a MIDI keyboard or press the sequence duplicate function (found in between sequencer delete and duplicate - page 26 of the manual) you can copy between sequences. When enabled (blinking) your currently selected sequence will be copied to your next selected sequence.

Yep, all good. But again, I'm talking about having longer sequences, like 64 steps at minimum. But hey why not 128 split over 4 sequencer pages? My only gripe with this.

[Sounds Outside]

Though I will say again that that I wish the sequencer had additional pages of steps for those of us who like to program at 32nd note resolution. 4 bars just ain't enough. It will unfortunately mean that I would use the sequencer less than I would like, and it's one of the things I really like about it! Think you guys could add more steps at the next update along with the single drum presets?

I understand what you mean and this is possible by chaining together sequences using external MIDI.

You have a total of 12 patterns each with 32 steps. If you trigger these using external MIDI (F2 - E3) and loop this in your DAW, Revolution will cycle through all the patterns you trigger. One of the advantages of this is that the switching happens legato, meaning you can switch the patterns in realtime. This allows you to have patterns with variations that can be switched as you press the key. This could be one bar of straight hihats, one bar of syncopated hihats, one bar with a fill at the end / cymbals and One bar with just kick and snare. Then you still have 8 bars (sequences) left over for more programming.

Our reasons for not adding more steps, or a song chaining mode built into the sequencer, were for the following ..

1) Adding a 64 step sequencer would have made each step much smaller and harder to see at a glance.
2) This also would have made the classic sequencer, and sequencing in general, much more complex. Currently we have a single A/B page for the NKS and Classic Sequencers. Adding 4 pages (as opposed to 2 currently) here we felt would have taken away from the user experience.
3) We found the above workflow of chaining patterns using external MIDI messages to be a great solution for more complex sequencing.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Though I will say again that that I wish the sequencer had additional pages of steps for those of us who like to program at 32nd note resolution. 4 bars just ain't enough. It will unfortunately mean that I would use the sequencer less than I would like, and it's one of the things I really like about it! Think you guys could add more steps at the next update along with the single drum presets?

I understand what you mean and this is possible by chaining together sequences using external MIDI.

You have a total of 12 patterns each with 32 steps. If you trigger these using external MIDI (F2 - E3) and loop this in your DAW, Revolution will cycle through all the patterns you trigger. One of the advantages of this is that the switching happens legato, meaning you can switch the patterns in realtime. This allows you to have patterns with variations that can be switched as you press the key. This could be one bar of straight hihats, one bar of syncopated hihats, one bar with a fill at the end / cymbals and One bar with just kick and snare. Then you still have 8 bars (sequences) left over for more programming.

Our reasons for not adding more steps, or a song chaining mode built into the sequencer, were for the following ..

1) Adding a 64 step sequencer would have made each step much smaller and harder to see at a glance.
2) This also would have made the classic sequencer, and sequencing in general, much more complex. Currently we have a single A/B page for the NKS and Classic Sequencers. Adding 4 pages (as opposed to 2 currently) here we felt would have taken away from the user experience.
3) We found the above workflow of chaining patterns using external MIDI messages to be a great solution for more complex sequencing.

Understood. However I'd rather use the 12 patterns as actual different patterns rather than for example 6 pairs that should be played together. That adds complexity that wouldn't be needed with a longer pattern.

And to your 3 points I would counter with the following comments:
1) I repeat again, my suggestion was to have another page that can be toggled to go in to an OPTIONAL additional 32 steps, so the size would be no different.
2) I don't see how having a A/B/C/D switch rather than an A/B is making it more complex. The user has the option of leaving the pattern length at 32 steps, or 16 for that matter. Exact same workflow/complexity. Just an additional setting for those who would like it.
3) I think using several patterns as one longer pattern make things more complex because now you have to pair them up. For example I have one sequence that is Pattern 1 and 2 together in series. So the midi clips have to keep those two notes together. Then another section of a track uses 3 and 4 in series and so the midi clip has to keep those together. This is opposed to just having a single note trigger pattern 1 for a section, then change to pattern 2 for a different pattern at a different section.

Anyways, hopefully you see my point of view and reconsider. There seems to be nothing lost by doubling the total sequence length, but some things to be gained. Thanks for listening!

[Sounds Outside]

Ok, good points and I see where you're coming from. This could be doable but it will take some rethinking of how several things are currently implemented. I'm not sure if this will make it for the next update but we'll definitely put some thought towards this. We would need to be sure this doesn't break compatibility with the current implementation as well but if it's possible we'll add this feature.

[nordickvr]

3) I think using several patterns as one longer pattern make things more complex because now you have to pair them up. For example I have one sequence that is Pattern 1 and 2 together in series. So the midi clips have to keep those two notes together. Then another section of a track uses 3 and 4 in series and so the midi clip has to keep those together. This is opposed to just having a single note trigger pattern 1 for a section, then change to pattern 2 for a different pattern at a different section...

Think too that'd be more versatile.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Ok, good points and I see where you're coming from. This could be doable but it will take some rethinking of how several things are currently implemented. I'm not sure if this will make it for the next update but we'll definitely put some thought towards this. We would need to be sure this doesn't break compatibility with the current implementation as well but if it's possible we'll add this feature.

Awesome, thanks for being open-minded!