DUNE2 vs Sylenth1

[exmatproton]

I would disagree here too
Every synth can be used for nearly every genre but sadly today every genre, sub-genre and sub-sub-genre seems to have holy rules and tools.
Differ your music and use a non-perfect synths for it
The world is not a box.
But what do i know....everything i made is "experimental"

Lol..same here. I am reading this thread like.. huh? I use whatever for whatever. I used dune2 in prog rock, 80's psychedelic dub, idm, ambient, semi-classical stuff...whatever

[wagtunes]

I would disagree here too
Every synth can be used for nearly every genre but sadly today every genre, sub-genre and sub-sub-genre seems to have holy rules and tools.
Differ your music and use a non-perfect synths for it
The world is not a box.
But what do i know....everything i made is "experimental"

Sad, but true. To be "accepted" today, you pretty much need to stay in that box to some degree. To be noticed, you have to have an interesting enough wrapper around the box to not drift into obscurity.

It is a very difficult balancing act and one I was never good at.

[fluffy_little_something]

I would disagree here too
Every synth can be used for nearly every genre but sadly today every genre, sub-genre and sub-sub-genre seems to have holy rules and tools.
Differ your music and use a non-perfect synths for it
The world is not a box.
But what do i know....everything i made is "experimental"

Lol..same here. I am reading this thread like.. huh? I use whatever for whatever. I used dune2 in prog rock, 80's psychedelic dub, idm, ambient, semi-classical stuff...whatever

I don't know. Since obviously synths do not all sound the same, some are better for certain genres than others. Each genre has a certain range of expected sounds and also a certain type of production etc., that make it what it is.
Same with guitars, basses, drums etc. Sure, you can use any of them for your genre, but if you pick the wrong one, your music will sound less authentic.
Few such experiments and violations are considered innovative.

[cytospur]

Should it be possible to emulate 2-operator FM (carrier/modulator) via Dune2 modmatrix? What do I do? Select one oscillator as a mod source, select the pitch of another oscillator as the target and set the modulation rate to audio rate?

If you want fm ( phase modulation ) , you'll have to use the fm osc .
Don't forget to set up mod.rate to ' audio rate ' in dune's preferences.

Or go to the second link in my signature and download the sine phase change wavetable. Set that as carrier and have fun using different wavetables as modulators

Edit: there are a couple of starter patches for download as well.

I haven't had time to update that page for quite some time, but that will happen early in the new year with the addition of some new wavetables.

[cytospur]

BTW, when using DUNE2's FM oscillator you don't need to set the quality to audio rate. It is optimised to work at normal quality settings. To use my approach to phase modulation in D2 you will need to use at least the best two settings, although the lower two settings give a certain crunchiness that some might like.

[exmatproton]

I would disagree here too
Every synth can be used for nearly every genre but sadly today every genre, sub-genre and sub-sub-genre seems to have holy rules and tools.
Differ your music and use a non-perfect synths for it
The world is not a box.
But what do i know....everything i made is "experimental"

Lol..same here. I am reading this thread like.. huh? I use whatever for whatever. I used dune2 in prog rock, 80's psychedelic dub, idm, ambient, semi-classical stuff...whatever

I don't know. Since obviously synths do not all sound the same, some are better for certain genres than others. Each genre has a certain range of expected sounds and also a certain type of production etc., that make it what it is.
Same with guitars, basses, drums etc. Sure, you can use any of them for your genre, but if you pick the wrong one, your music will sound less authentic.
Few such experiments and violations are considered innovative.

Obviously.

But, as i stated, most stuff i do is quite experimental. So yeah. Also, these synths we are comparing are quite easy to use in a broad sense. In other words; for most stuff i do, i don't really care how the particular saw or filter sounds. I think more in "which synth fits which workflow" ways. In that sense Dune2 offers me way more compared to S1.

[recursive one]

Should it be possible to emulate 2-operator FM (carrier/modulator) via Dune2 modmatrix? What do I do? Select one oscillator as a mod source, select the pitch of another oscillator as the target and set the modulation rate to audio rate?

If you want fm ( phase modulation ) , you'll have to use the fm osc .
Don't forget to set up mod.rate to ' audio rate ' in dune's preferences.

Or go to the second link in my signature and download the sine phase change wavetable. Set that as carrier and have fun using different wavetables as modulators

Thanks a ton!

Would it be possible/make sense to make the same thing based on a saw wave?

[cytospur]

Should it be possible to emulate 2-operator FM (carrier/modulator) via Dune2 modmatrix? What do I do? Select one oscillator as a mod source, select the pitch of another oscillator as the target and set the modulation rate to audio rate?

If you want fm ( phase modulation ) , you'll have to use the fm osc .
Don't forget to set up mod.rate to ' audio rate ' in dune's preferences.

Or go to the second link in my signature and download the sine phase change wavetable. Set that as carrier and have fun using different wavetables as modulators

Thanks a ton!

Would it be possible/make sense to make the same thing based on a saw wave?

No problem

I have equivalent tables with many different waves including saws. Those with fewer partials work best though. I'll release them soon. I'm in the process of making patches to go with them.

[Synthman2000]

I would disagree here too
Every synth can be used for nearly every genre but sadly today every genre, sub-genre and sub-sub-genre seems to have holy rules and tools.
Differ your music and use a non-perfect synths for it
The world is not a box.
But what do i know....everything i made is "experimental"

Someone years ago had to create a sound that started that chain of sounds off and then others who were probably prominent in the genre helped those sounds evolve. I believe the reason why specific sounds developed for different genres is because they sounded good and people like them.

Clearly the sounds are important but maybe not more important than a good melody and a tracks ability to make you dance. This may be why there is seemingly a lack of evolution in synth sounds and textures. It may be third in the list of....

Melody
Groove
Synth sounds

Relative to musical acceptance and dance-ability.

But in terms of identity of genre might be....

Synth Sounds
Groove
Melody

Just some thoughts of the top of my head this morning.

As a producer you have a choice to try and innovate with the risk of making sounds that people don't like or taking a safer but oft criticised route of using sounds that are common.

I don't believe there is a right or wrong as subjectively good and bad music can be made with familiar and unfamiliar sounds.

It is a personal decision and approach and often one that will evolve as an artist evolves. In the end it is skill, hard work and never giving up that normally succeeds.

[carrieres]

Should it be possible to emulate 2-operator FM (carrier/modulator) via Dune2 modmatrix? What do I do? Select one oscillator as a mod source, select the pitch of another oscillator as the target and set the modulation rate to audio rate?

If you want fm ( phase modulation ) , you'll have to use the fm osc .
Don't forget to set up mod.rate to ' audio rate ' in dune's preferences.

Or go to the second link in my signature and download the sine phase change wavetable. Set that as carrier and have fun using different wavetables as modulators

Hello Mark,
i am a bit lost, do i need your wavetable to make simple Yamaha DX style sound ?
and why ?
using the FM module in Dune2 is not enough ? why ?
or modulating osc1 with osc2 in the matrix should give me the sound of a 2 op FM style ?
i am trying to follow a FM tutorial and i can't obtain the sound example of the tutorial

[cytospur]

Should it be possible to emulate 2-operator FM (carrier/modulator) via Dune2 modmatrix? What do I do? Select one oscillator as a mod source, select the pitch of another oscillator as the target and set the modulation rate to audio rate?

If you want fm ( phase modulation ) , you'll have to use the fm osc .
Don't forget to set up mod.rate to ' audio rate ' in dune's preferences.

Or go to the second link in my signature and download the sine phase change wavetable. Set that as carrier and have fun using different wavetables as modulators

Hello Mark,
i am a bit lost, do i need your wavetable to make simple Yamaha DX style sound ?
and why ?
using the FM module in Dune2 is not enough ? why ?
or modulating osc1 with osc2 in the matrix should give me the sound of a 2 op FM style ?
i am trying to follow a FM tutorial and i can't obtain the sound example of the tutorial

There should be a button that says "Download the patch". There's one for the 2op example and the other for the morphed wavetables example. Both buttons should be underneath the screen grabs.

The whole point about my approach is that you can use non-sine modulators (and carriers once I release them). The native FM oscillator in D2 is made of sine waves only. You can, of course, modulate the FM amount in the native oscillator (using audio rate modulation settings) and this is definitely something worth exploring, however, this is more akin to amplitude modulation of the modulators rather than phase modulation.

[cytospur]

Also, you can do feedback FM with a single oscillator. If you have both osc1+2 as the sine phase change wavetable you can self-feedback each oscillator (like in Reface DX, albeit not square wave feedback), whilst modulating osc1 and osc2 and feedback from osc1 to osc2. Things can get quite complex with that simple set up, and we haven't even added in osc3 to modulate osc1 and/or osc2.

[Buckster]

after reading this thread and struggling between Dune 2 or Spire

I've decided to go for Both

[recursive one]

The native FM oscillator in D2 is made of sine waves only.

This is why I'm trying to use the modmatix instead of native FM. I'm trying to replicate the sound you get when you FM a saw wave for another saw wave 2 octaves lower in Virus, Nordlead or Discovery - a kind of "electricity" sound often used in psytrance. So far my best results in replicating this sound in a synth which doesn't allow saw to saw FM were made by modultaing a pitch of an oscillator with a very fast LFO in Spire.

[cytospur]

The native FM oscillator in D2 is made of sine waves only.

This is why I'm trying to use the modmatix instead of native FM. I'm trying to replicate the sound you get when you FM a saw wave for another saw wave 2 octaves lower in Virus, Nordlead or Discovery - a kind of "electricity" sound often used in psytrance. So far my best results in replicating this sound in a synth which doesn't allow saw to saw FM were made by modultaing a pitch of an oscillator with a very fast LFO in Spire.

Use the sine phase change wavetable, set wt position to 50. In the mod matrix apply osc1 feedback using osc1 as source and osc1 wt position as destination. Use 15 as the amount of modulation. This will give you a saw like waveform. Then use a second oscillator with a saw wave and use that to modulate osc1 wt position as a separate mod matrix entry. Probably not exactly what you want, but a step in the right direction!

Edit: you might want to have both oscillators to reset phase for a consistent sound, you might not