What Happened To Vengeance Essential House 1, 2, and 3?

[Orbit-50]

I have volume 4 but can't seem to find the others. Did Vengeance pull them? Very strange that they don't seem to exist anymore.

[chk071]

I know that they pulled Essential Club Sounds up to Volume 4 or so, so, i guess the same could have happened to these ones.

[Orbit-50]

Thanks chk071. I didn't notice that they pulled those also. I have all of those, so nothing lost for me there. I just wanted to check out the other Essential House packs and I guess they're gone forever. Crud!

[tehlord]

They were laughably full of copyright infringing samples (so I recall), so maybe that's got something to do with it?

[Orbit-50]

They were laughably full of copyright infringing samples (so I recall), so maybe that's got something to do with it?

Ah, I got you. That might be what happened. Thanks.

[chk071]

TBH, i always wondered if that is really true, or not just some rumours spread by haters (you know, those who are pissed off that the packs cost 89 €, and that Vengeance have a big success with them). One would think that, if there was really so much copyright infringement, they would have at least had a couple of "inquiries" by the respective copyright holders, which surely would have kicked up some dust. But, no idea.

[Orbit-50]

TBH, i always wondered if that is really true, or not just some rumours spread by haters (you know, those who are pissed off that the packs cost 89 €, and that Vengeance have a big success with them). One would think that, if there was really so much copyright infringement, they would have at least had a couple of "inquiries" by the respective copyright holders, which surely would have kicked up some dust. But, no idea.

Right. There were, and are, a lot of haters of Vengeance sample packs and their success. I really never got that because they are highly valuable resources. I wish we could hear from Vengeance himself, not that he owes anybody an explanation, but it would be interesting to find out why they were pulled. I can't be the only one that might have wanted to buy them at this time.

[Kr3eM]

TBH, i always wondered if that is really true, or not just some
rumours spread by haters (you know, those who are pissed off that the packs cost 89
€, and that Vengeance have a big success with them)

Right. There were, and are, a lot of haters of Vengeance sample packs and their
success. I really never got that because they are highly valuable resources.

It's very likely that the hate for these releases are just because the fact that it
was a success and it's main source is based on a lot of copyrighted material.
That's a perfect and solid foundation for hate to grow isn't? more solid and more
reasonable than just generic envy of others success with a sample pack.

I know they stole a part of the intro from Thomas Krome - Shockabuku Vol.1.

For those who care...
Vengeance Essential Clubsounds Vol.2
Filename: VEC2 Loops Fills 009.wav

It was from this release, about 1:44 the pitching/sliding down beat.


VEC2 Poorly modified it with a flanger, would not be surprised if it's from a
Pioneer DJM-500/600 used when recording it. Now that's creative isn't it.
So how would you feel? What would you do if it was your work? Perhaps a little bit
angry? Oh nooes haters gonna hate... (STFU Taylor)

One would think that, if there was really so much copyright infringement, they would have at least had a couple of "inquiries" by the respective copyright holders, which surely would have kicked up some dust. But, no idea.

Yes, one would think that. That's pretty much the problem isn't it? But how would
one know if they have had inquiries from copyright holders?

I would say it's wrong to assume that underground artists and labels would be able to make a big fuzz like major labels and major artists can. Even if they are right.

Just as an example, ever heard anything about The Chemical Brothers stealing the
drum loop from Jesper Dalhback's remix of Thomas Krome - The Real Jazz ?

Thomas Krome - Real Jazz (Jesper Dalhback Remix)


The Chemical Brothers - The Sunshine Underground

I Think you here best at the end about 7:20 when all the synths/sounds calms down.


Even though Real Jazz is published with Warner/Chappell and a legal action was requested no compensation was ever made nor acknowledgement for that matter.

The issue with copyright infringement that people seem to always forget is that it doesn't really matter if you have the rights when you lack the resources to enforce the matter.

Even if you have the resources you may still not win thereby loose actual money you already had earned, that suddenly makes it a judgment call about risk taking and not longer a question about right and wrong.

A publisher will most likely drop you like it's hot if the risk of loss is to high or gain is to little, this include their business relationships with others which makes it really tricky to know if a label/manager/publisher and so on really do give a honest 110%. The one with best legal resources/skills and the cash to go with it has an clear advantage.


Perhaps one or more of those underground artists they stole from now have become a big shot in the industry and now have the protection of the major players in the game.



....little fish, big fish....


Still, Vengeance already sold a lot of them before pulling them.... and they say crime doesn't pay.........




.

[chk071]

I know they stole a part of the intro from Thomas Krome - Shockabuku Vol.1.

For those who care...
Vengeance Essential Clubsounds Vol.2
Filename: VEC2 Loops Fills 009.wav

It was from this release, about 1:44 the pitching/sliding down beat.


VEC2 Poorly modified it with a flanger, would not be surprised if it's from a
Pioneer DJM-500/600 used when recording it. Now that's creative isn't it.
So how would you feel? What would you do if it was your work? Perhaps a little bit
angry?

Dunno. How do The Winstons feel that their drum loop was basically on every second Drum & Bass track of the 90ies? Or how do all those R'nB or funk artists feel, whose melodies, or whole parts of their tracks ended up on hip hop albums, which sold millions of times?

[AnX]

They were laughably full of copyright infringing samples

Correct. Im amazed they are still in business. They dont deserve to be.

[tehlord]

I can't be correct, I'm apparently a 'hater'

[AnX]

I can't be correct, I'm apparently a 'hater'

You support Luton Town?

[Soundplex]

Yes after nearly every of their sample pack releases were copyright issues. Remember when they "sampled" from other sample packs and didn't even remove the id3 tags?

To me their business is another one: get rid of the old ones and give them a new name to sell them again. Unfortunately there are many duplicates not even across their sample packs but also within a pack itself. Also many samples are the same just with a flanger or bit crushing fx added.
Btw this seems to be the same with their nexus expansions. Discontinue one, repack the sounds, sell them again.

As long as there are dumb customers following their scheme they will continue.

[NerdMcBoon]

Yeah, when I bought the first ECS thingies when they first came out, I was quite shocked how obviously the drum hits were simply cut from popular tracks, and not even all that well.

However, I think they moved on since then and are more professional now. I haven't bought anything from them since the early days, though.

[Kr3eM]

I know they stole a part of the intro from Thomas Krome - Shockabuku Vol.1.

For those who care...
Vengeance Essential Clubsounds Vol.2
Filename: VEC2 Loops Fills 009.wav

It was from this release, about 1:44 the pitching/sliding down beat.


VEC2 Poorly modified it with a flanger, would not be surprised if it's from a
Pioneer DJM-500/600 used when recording it. Now that's creative isn't it.
So how would you feel? What would you do if it was your work? Perhaps a little bit
angry?

Dunno. How do The Winstons feel that their drum loop was basically on every second Drum & Bass track of the 90ies? Or how do all those R'nB or funk artists feel, whose melodies, or whole parts of their tracks ended up on hip hop albums, which sold millions of times?

It was a retorical question.

My point was to highlight a obvious and very likely reason for the "hate" to be born and manifest itself. The usual "haters are just haters that hate others success" flawed argument.

Either way, you do know the origin of the The Amen Break, it is not claimed to be from someone else. That by itself makes it a whole other discussion.