Advice on a new laptop for music production

[chk071]

On the other hand, i think he had a point. Why would they build a more reliable device, just because it's tagged "business"? Typically, the price would rather dictate the build quality. And i also would figure that the components are chosen, because they fit to the other hardware. "Testing" - mmh... something which IMO plays a less and less important role, at least in the consumer area. I think the times when a device has been built to last, and a lot of reliability engineering has flown into development are over. The market is a lot "faster" now, devices don't have to be built to last 15 years. Of course, you would be stupid as a manufacturers to not take care that your device doesn't break down after a few months, but, reliability won't be that much of a factor anymore. At least it isn't in other areas.

[T-CM11]

On the other hand, i think he had a point. Why would they build a more reliable device, just because it's tagged "business"?

Well, companies that buy laptops for their employees have different demands/standards than your mom who just wants to write a letter in ms word, play a facebook game, or watch a youtube movie.

Typically, the price would rather dictate the build quality. And i also would figure that the components are chosen, because they fit to the other hardware.

The price can dictate a lot, not necessarily the build quality. Companies that produce laptops want to keep their price as low as possible - the intended market dictates where the priorities lie.

"Testing" - mmh... something which IMO plays a less and less important role, at least in the consumer area. I think the times when a device has been built to last, and a lot of reliability engineering has flown into development are over. The market is a lot "faster" now, devices don't have to be built to last 15 years. Of course, you would be stupid as a manufacturers to not take care that your device doesn't break down after a few months, but, reliability won't be that much of a factor anymore. At least it isn't in other areas.

Business & workstation laptop lines don't get renewed every month. Why are you saying "at least in the consumer area"? How is this an argument against "the other areas"?

Let's just take "1" aspect of laptops: cooling<>noise<>throttling
- Consumer laptop: the typical users of these laptops don't run their CPU near 100% for an extended period of time. So -> bad cooling -> more noise when pushed -> probably throttling when pushed even further.
- Gaming laptop: GPU is more important than CPU, but still needs adequate cooling. Many gamers don't care about noise that much because they have a headset on or speakers playing. So -> loud fans

And that's just one aspect... Companies don't just make The Best Laptop At Any Price, they prioritise - and the intended market dictates on what. And specifications are far from the full description.

[chk071]

I do get the different demands argument, but, i think that rather affects the features, than the reliability. If you buy (as a company) cheap components for your business computers, the chance of a failure simply will be higher than when you buy more expensive components.

[T-CM11]

I do get the different demands argument, but, i think that rather affects the features, than the reliability. If you buy (as a company) cheap components for your business computers, the chance of a failure simply will be higher than when you buy more expensive components.

So your advice here is; buy a $10.000 laptop with only the best components?

And some better components will make for more reliability.
e.g. better case -> can withstand more abuse when touring
better motherboard -> more stable DPC latency
better cooling (also case-related) -> no throttling (I mentioned that already) -> also longer lifespan
(in the past) better firewire chipset (TI) -> duh
etc.

[liquidsound]

Wow! Happy New Years.
Some good posts here.
Back to research then...

My Pro Thinkpad is really not as powerful or responsive as it should be and is top of the line.
I did the factory reset few times but the junk that comes with it is probably the problem.
I did a real cleanup of Symantec with the right tool and the laptop had issues working properly after that.

10 years ago the Thinkpads were phenomenal.

[T-CM11]

My Pro Thinkpad is really not as powerful or responsive as it should be and is top of the line.

Not powerful or responsive when doing what...? I always use a fresh Windows installation, but afaik Lenovo doesn't put that much bloatware on their workstation series.
What was that "right tool"? You should be able to uninstall the symantec software using the standard uninstaller. On what kind of hard drive is your Windows installed on? (5400rpm/7200rpm/SSD)

[chk071]

I do get the different demands argument, but, i think that rather affects the features, than the reliability. If you buy (as a company) cheap components for your business computers, the chance of a failure simply will be higher than when you buy more expensive components.

So your advice here is; buy a $10.000 laptop with only the best components?

No, but, i think, if there are issues, or inferior components, then sites which test notebooks would have spotted them. And, in this case, i simply think that companies tag their products "business", if the features meet the demands people which use the notebook occupationally have, and not so much reliability, or that they are bullet proof. For example, i always read that the IBM Thinkpads would be indestructable, but, when i actually bought one (used), there was something buzzing inside, so i opened it, and saw that a couple coming from the fan laid loose inside, and i fixed it, but, the next time i turned the laptop around, the buzz was there again. The display cladding was loose too, obviously someone slammed the lid too hard, or it even was repaired or something, there were some spots on the display too, which looked liked as if someone stabbed a ball pen into the display. It surely didn't get the best treatment, but didn't leave a very "solid" impression on me either.

Anyway, i guess, in general, business notebooks will also be more expensive than typical consumer noteboos, so i guess the reliability and stability comes automatically with that too anyway.

[liquidsound]

My Pro Thinkpad is really not as powerful or responsive as it should be and is top of the line.

Not powerful or responsive when doing what...? I always use a fresh Windows installation, but afaik Lenovo doesn't put that much bloatware on their workstation series.
What was that "right tool"? You should be able to uninstall the symantec software using the standard uninstaller. On what kind of hard drive is your Windows installed on? (5400rpm/7200rpm/SSD)

Windows 8.1
I used the Symantec removal tool and after that I had several and random error messages and some would refer to the missing something regarding Norton stuff.
I have a Standard account for Internet use running antivirus and malwarebyte, a Sandboxie browser and that's it.
Back to the admin account I usually run the antivirus and malwarebyte scan and then shut them off.
I use Internet only occasionally for upgrades and downloads.
Beside my CAD program Rhino I only have music stuff.
MuLab, Ableton, Reaper, Studio One, Reason etc.
The laptop lacks response in opening files, folders and the mouse also seems to have its moments. No problem with Spaceball though.
CAD functions are fine.
i7-4930MX 3.00 GHZ 32GB 64 Bit 500 SSD.
But beside all this, I must isolate music from business because sometimes I need to leave the laptop at my office.
Now I like to get something dedicated to music and I don't really care about graphic power.
Many choice but superficial knowledge about systems.

[liquidsound]

I would avoid the Zenbook Pro.

ASUS uses the RG/BW Pentile matrix in this laptop to cheat the ability to advertise it as 4K, without actually providing the full detail of the resolution. RG/BW Pentile displays require the GPU to do the all work to render the full 3840x2160 resolution, but the display doesn't actually have enough dots to fully display the resolution, so it has to be downsampled. The result usually ends up being jagged text, loss of detail on anything zoomed less than 200%, and sometimes poorer color reproduction due to the use of the added white dot to increase brightness ratings at the cost of color fidelity.

I would recommend putting the Zenbook Pro product line on a blacklist for now and for future purchases until it can be confirmed that they have stopped doing this.

EDIT: Just realized you're looking at the MSI GS63VR too. If you're looking at the 1080p version, that display is great. But if you're looking at the 4K version, it's the same issue

If you like what the ASUS Zenbook purports itself to be, I would buy a Dell XPS 15 4K, Lenovo Y700 4K, or Acer Nitro Black Edition 4K. All of those laptops use the same GPU (NVIDIA GTX 960M) but have significantly better 100% honest true 4K UHD 3840x2160 displays.

I didn't notice these details in the reviews. Thanks for the insight.
I don't care much for 4K so I wonder if those fake 4K are OK at lower resolution.
I'm checking the above suggested models.
Thank you.

[T-CM11]

Anyway, i guess, in general, business notebooks will also be more expensive than typical consumer noteboos, so i guess the reliability and stability comes automatically with that too anyway.

My first recommendation would always be a "built for audio stuff" laptop from a specialised company. But those aren't cheap. If you keep an eye on ebay, a previous generation business laptop can be found really cheap and often in near new condition (since the typical user of those rarely takes it to the beach or spills beer over it ).

And regarding the part of your post I didn't quote: Bad experiences can be had with every product... some more than others. Never wondered how those POS plastic TB303s survived 30+ years?

[T-CM11]

I don't care much for 4K so I wonder if those fake 4K are OK at lower resolution.

A TFT shouldn't be used at anything other than native resolution. If the UI is too small, use the OS scaling function.

[T-CM11]

The laptop lacks response in opening files, folders and the mouse also seems to have its moments.

Since you have an SSD, that definitely sounds like a software problem. (don't know what's up with the mouse, is it wireless?)
Is a virus scanner running in the background when you have these responsiveness issues?

[liquidsound]

I've had very good experiences with MSI laptops for music. I'd consider something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834152946

Very nice specs and price. How is the MSI support?
I still have an old ASUS B43J but the ASUS support was...

[liquidsound]

The laptop lacks response in opening files, folders and the mouse also seems to have its moments.

Since you have an SSD, that definitely sounds like a software problem. (don't know what's up with the mouse, is it wireless?)
Is a virus scanner running in the background when you have these responsiveness issues?

Definitely a software problem. No wireless mouse and nothing running in the background. I have a feeling it's Norton and It can't function without.
I was going to buy Windows 10 clean install, I know I missed the free upgrade opportunity, but trying to install all the Lenovo drivers is something I will never do again after I did it to another Thinkpad, my wife, that I upgraded to W7. Horrific experience.

I think I will go with a 1920 X 1080 screen model just in case I want to see some Reason racks

[liquidsound]

Have a look at laptops by SCAN computers. I've been very happy with my 17" quad-core i7 Win 8.1 system built by them in 2015. I got 3 1TB SSDs & 24GB RAM put into mine ...

Thanks for the info.
How is the support for these laptops?