KVR Audio

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:22 pm

I am currently only aware of Logic Pro X (Flex offers slicing) as well as Ableton Live (Beats algorithm). All other DAWs I tried (Cubase, Studio One, Bitwig, Reaper, Pro Tools) only offer time-stretching (but no automatic slicing (algorithms) per se - even they offer slicing "functions" but no algorithm for automatic use of drag&drop files).

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:30 pm

Not sure if i get you right, but, do the "Detect transients" -> "Slice at bend markers" functions in Studio One do what you asked for?

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:34 pm

chk071 wrote:Not sure if i get you right, but, do the "Detect transients" -> "Slice at bend markers" functions in Studio One do what you asked for?

No, these kind of functions nearly all DAWs offer today. To explain it with S1 I would like to have a "Slicing" option for the "Timestretch"-algorithm. Currently they only offer "Drums" which is plain time-stretching with some sort of transient preservation (Elastique v3). In other words if you are stretching drums (or any other percussive material) in any DAW other than Logic or Ableton you get artifacts and strange sounding issues fast (compared to slicing).

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:39 pm

I see. No idea then, sorry.

andrew732 · Post by **andrew732** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:37 am

I guess I don't understand what you mean by a "slicing" algorithm that applies to stretched material. Do you just mean a stretching algorithm that is particularly good at preserving transients in rhythmic material? I haven't seen a DAW with more or better algorithms than Ableton, so that might be your best bet.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:14 am

Reaper has stretch markers

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:04 am

andrew732 wrote:I guess I don't understand what you mean by a "slicing" algorithm that applies to stretched material. Do you just mean a stretching algorithm that is particularly good at preserving transients in rhythmic material? I haven't seen a DAW with more or better algorithms than Ableton, so that might be your best bet.

I mean that I can drag & drop an audio file (loop) in and the DAW automatically uses a slicing algorithm (for the usual stretching purposes) instead of stretching the whole thing (or even parts of it). Cubase, Reaper, S1 are usually f**k up the transients immediately (even though they are using the newest Elastique v3 transient algorithms - but it's still stretching and no slicing).

Actually what Ableton Live is doing with its Beat algorithm (which is also used by default) or Logic with its Flex (Slicing) algorithm. No stretching (in the classic sense) is applied but slicing.
Logic also decides itself which algorithm is applied which is very handy. If you drag in a vocal stretching is applied, if you drag in drums slicing is applied.

I am interested if there are other DAWs who are capable of (automatic) slicing (by automatic I don't mean "slice at hitpoints" kind of functions and fumble re-pack and re-arranging the slices).

Tracktion (I couldn't find something like that), FL Studio (I think there is something like that), Samplitude (Elastique as usual). Maybe Cakewalk Sonar offers some "slicing" algorithm?

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:19 pm

The Beats warp mode does actually stretch, but it just granulizes the least significant parts. It's more complex than simple slicing at transients, and you're right, DAWs using elastique can't match the results as that algo is designed for other purposes.

Which brings us to the question- why not use either Live or Logic?

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:23 pm

.jon wrote:The Beats warp mode does actually stretch, but it just granulizes the least significant parts. It's more complex than simple slicing at transients, and you're right, DAWs using elastique can't match the results as that algo is designed for other purposes.

Which brings us to the question- why not use either Live or Logic?

Personally I am already using both but I am just curious to know if another DAW offers similar sonic qualities / slicing based stretching (if this makes sense).

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:53 pm

Maybe I'm missing something about the requirement but Cubase slices - it's available in the sample editor: double-click on the sample/loop in the arrange timeline, select the slicing threshold in the Hitpoints tab and then Create Slices using the button towards the bottom of the window.

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:32 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:Maybe I'm missing something about the requirement but Cubase slices - it's available in the sample editor: double-click on the sample/loop in the arrange timeline, select the slicing threshold in the Hitpoints tab and then Create Slices using the button towards the bottom of the window.

Yes, but Ableton (and Logic) offer these via "drag&drop" no fumbling in the editor and the slicing in Cubase very often generate clicks at the start or end so you have to additionally use fades to make it usable (to much steps to do).
Then you like to transpose the loop - you have to do this with every single slice(!) (in the case of a tonal percussion instrument), not so in Ableton Live as the slicing algorithm is used like Elastique in Cubase.

I am looking for other DAWs (maybe Reason?) which offer something like Ableton Live is offering with its Beat algorithm, drag & drop for percussive loops without transient muffling / phasing.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:36 pm

Slicing isn't really an appropriate term here. The Beats algo protects the whole drum hit and keeps them in place relative to the rhythm, it doesn't split the audio into separate slices at transients.

tedannemann · Post by **tedannemann** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:50 pm

.jon wrote:Slicing isn't really an appropriate term here. The Beats algo protects the whole drum hit and keeps them in place relative to the rhythm, it doesn't split the audio into separate slices at transients.

Yes I know, at least regarding Ableton Live, that's why I said "Slicing option for the Timestretch-algorithm".
However Logic Pro X really "slices" your loop with Flex:

Slices the audio material at transient markers, then shifts the audio while playing each slice at its original speed. No time compression or expansion is applied to the shifted audio.

dzilizzi · Post by **dzilizzi** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Not sure that Reason has something like that as an audio option. But the REX loops seem to do that. I have created REX loops in Recycle - it sets the transients, but you can move them to where you want them if you don't like what they give you. But it is an added step if your loops aren't already REX format.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:13 pm

tedannemann wrote:No, these kind of functions nearly all DAWs offer today. To explain it with S1 I would like to have a "Slicing" option for the "Timestretch"-algorithm. Currently they only offer "Drums" which is plain time-stretching with some sort of transient preservation (Elastique v3). In other words if you are stretching drums (or any other percussive material) in any DAW other than Logic or Ableton you get artifacts and strange sounding issues fast (compared to slicing).

I might misunderstand you, if so, sorry.

Which DAWs offer (automatic) slicing (algorithms) instead of classic time-stretching?