One Synth Challenge #95: HY-Mono by HY-Plugins / hyakken (Carl_saved wins!!!)

[Cruba]

Attention: UPDATED! Bassdrumfix. Hope you like it! Bye bye bassdrum pops!

Cruba’s KVR OSC January Entry / HY-Mono

https://soundcloud.com/cajhmere/cruba-m ... ry-hy-mono

Daw: Cubase Elements 6
Instances: 9

foreign presetsounds
none

own presetsounds (all sounds designed from scratch)
Bassdrum
Organ I
Organ II
Bass
Monostring
Lead
Crystallic Snare
Cryer
Claps

effects:
NastyDLAmkII (Delay / 8 times used)
OrilRiver (Reverb / 6 times used)
BarkOfDog (Saturation) / 3 times used)
LilPlug (Preamp) / 1 time used)
lkjb_Luftikus (Equalizer / 4 times used)
OTT (Compressor / 2 times used)
Vitamin C (Compressor / 6 times used)
Lazy Kenneth (Ducker / 1 time used)
Space360 (Room / 1 time used)

mastering
MHORSE P3

[Carl_saved]

I try the delay way for the bassdrum. Cos of the big feedback thing I hope every basdrumhit sound same crappy.

I used the tutorial of brainzistor on page 1 of this thread. It worked fine for me. (Thanks brainzistor!)

I'm just gonna explain it a bit:
The thing is that for some reason, the attack of ENV 2 is somewhat slow when ENV 2 is applied on Filter Cutoff (could be some sort of internal "resistance" to prevent the filter from producing clicks?). I think it is short as normal when applied to osc 2 pitch. But because the modulation range for pitch is limited to 12 semitones, it might not be enough for a decent kick.
Alternatively we can use the resonance of the filter. We can work around the attack issue: the idea is to turn the table and use the attack phase as we usually use decay. (Since the attack is short enough to be a decent decay). To achieve this, filter frequency is chosen rather high and the modulation amount negatively. Sustain of ENV 2 needs to be at max.
Two more things to care about:
- You need to choose the note length/amp envelope carefully. Otherwise you will hear the Filter sweep up again after you released (yes, I missed the release knob...)
- Two kick notes can't be played directly in sequence: there must be a gap, because the Filter needs some time for release phase of ENV 2 to restore its original frequency.

I find it actually quite fun to work around the limitations of this little synth.
Another plus IMO is that it is very CPU efficient.

[Frostline]

The thing is that for some reason, the attack of ENV 2 is somewhat slow when ENV 2 is applied on Filter Cutoff (could be some sort of internal "resistance" to prevent the filter from producing clicks?). I think it is short as normal when applied to osc 2 pitch.

How are you able to modulate pitch with ENV 2?
On both OSC's I just see ENV 1 and LFO as mod sources for pitch and PW but not ENV 2.
I only see ENV 2 for filter mod.
I would really like to use ENV 2 for pitch of OSC2 while using ENV 1 for the volume envelope of OSC2.
I assume I must be overlooking something obvious as how to do that.

- Two kick notes can't be played directly in sequence: there must be a gap, because the Filter needs some time for release phase of ENV 2 to restore its original frequency.

How much of a gap?
Assuming a 128BPM tempo are we talking a 64th note size gap or a 1/2 note or what?
Does using the retrigger function increase or decrease the needed gap size?

And is there even a release phase when decay is under 50%?
I have tried many things to put "tails" (for lack of a better term) on my instrument notes but find the release is always abrupt regardless of sustain or note length if decay is under 50%
It is like the decay knob is similar to the OSC's mod knob of pitch/PW. Settings under 50% seem to do duration and settings over 50% do release. Just as the OSC mod knob does either pitch change or PW change but not both.
Could someone explain how to get it to work more like an ADSR envelope?

I find it actually quite fun to work around the limitations of this little synth.

Fun is not the f-word I would use in describing my personal experiences so far with this particular synth.

[Carl_saved]

How are you able to modulate pitch with ENV 2?

Well, the ENV1 button in osc2 is wrong. Look at the signal paths somewhere on this page:
http://hyakken.moo.jp/WordPress/product/hy-mono/
Also you can test this easily by modifying the Init patch by only letting osc 2 produce sound, raise the osc 2 pitch modulation and try what both envelopes do to pitch and loudness.
What is not shown in the signal path diagram is that the sub oscillator's pitch modulation is linked to osc1's modulation.

- Two kick notes can't be played directly in sequence: there must be a gap, because the Filter needs some time for release phase of ENV 2 to restore its original frequency.

How much of a gap?
Assuming a 128BPM tempo are we talking a 64th note size gap or a 1/2 note or what?
Does using the retrigger function increase or decrease the needed gap size?

I managed the kick to sound somewhat consistent with a gap of 1/64 note (i have 124 BPM). But thats for the cost that I do hear the filter sweep up again at least a bit if the note is too short (which gets covered by the mix so it's fine).

And is there even a release phase when decay is under 50%?
I have tried many things to put "tails" (for lack of a better term) on my instrument notes but find the release is always abrupt regardless of sustain or note length if decay is under 50%
It is like the decay knob is similar to the OSC's mod knob of pitch/PW. Settings under 50% seem to do duration and settings over 50% do release. Just as the OSC mod knob does either pitch change or PW change but not both.

I like the way you said this. Because it describes the character of the envelope quite well, although not being accurate. The Decay knob controls always BOTH decay and release at once. So it is not possible to have a classical ADSR. The decay is often useless if too long, so we can't have a noticeable decay phase when we want to have a "tail". The other way round: if the decay phase is important, then we can't control release, which usually ends up relatively short because of our decay rate choice. You have to choose: either an envelope with "tail" or an envelope with a short decay.
However, we have two envelopes that can be set up quite differently, e.g. ENV1 with high sustain and release and ENV2 with short decay and sustain set to zero (modulating osc2 pitch or cutoff or both), to create "tailed" but percussive sounds. (Well, it's everything but trivial, I admit )

[Frostline]

@Carl_saved

Great answers thank you very much.

I had looked at that diagram before, but now after this I think I understand it a bit better.
I think I prefer ADSR over this, though I am definitely going to play around with the advice you gave. It seems like it would be a muffled tail rather than a fading tail, but it makes sense that it should work better than the gates I was trying.
And I am curious if the PW side from OSC1 will also effect the sub and in what way.

I think my kick gaps are around 1/8th so should be plenty of time for the filter then. Though the pitch wants to wander a bit over several bars. I'm just calling it humanizing.

[wagtunes]

For those entering this one, I know a mono synth can seem a little limiting but this was done on a Commodore 64.

[Taron]

OH, I may be late to notice this, but HY-Mono's osc 2 choice for ENV1 is actually ENV2. Has anybody else noticed that already? Just thought I'd share this funny encounter, hehe.

And, wag, I hope you've noticed that the youtube clip there is a funny mix, including an Epiano that's neither C64, nor mono, hehe . Cute tune, by the way. I started off making SID tunes with the C64, by the way! A few years back I was asked by a group to contribute a new song to a big SID compilation, also including some of my old tunes. I got me an emulator and all that and made one, too. Was fun! Maybe I find all that stuff again...
NO FREAKING WAY:

[Paree]

OH, I may be late to notice this, but HY-Mono's osc 2 choice for ENV1 is actually ENV2. Has anybody else noticed that already? Just thought I'd share this funny encounter, hehe.

And, wag, I hope you've noticed that the youtube clip there is a funny mix, including an Epiano that's neither C64, nor mono, hehe . Cute tune, by the way. I started off making SID tunes with the C64, by the way! A few years back I was asked by a group to contribute a new song to a big SID compilation, also including some of my old tunes. I got me an emulator and all that and made one, too. Was fun! Maybe I find all that stuff again...
NO FREAKING WAY:

That was Awesome! Was it made using a real C64?

[Taron]

THANKS!
No, that was with an emulator, but well...an actual emulator, so...kinda real, if you know what I mean!
But I used to do them in 80's on a C128, actually, always in C64 mode with a Final Cartridge II (omg, I remember?!).

[wagtunes]

Those were the days...not LOL.

[Paree]

THANKS!
No, that was with an emulator, but well...an actual emulator, so...kinda real, if you know what I mean!
But I used to do them in 80's on a C128, actually, always in C64 mode with a Final Cartridge II (omg, I remember?!).

That sounds really cool even though i don't really understand it. Just like your Vsti you made for DC16.
It sounded awesome but i didn't really know what i was doing.

[Eauson]

https://soundcloud.com/eauson/hypnomonodubx

Reaper 5.29x64
26 instances of hy mono

Desk air windows* 28
Reaverb*5
ReaEq*14
Transient controller
ReaComp*3
Reagate
Bass manager
Js saturation
Js rbj hipass lopass
Reaxcomp
Boba krt
Js event horizon
Stardust
Mvmeter
Signaliser lightbridge

[TrojakEW]

Now this round is really awesome. First time ever in my life I'm using mono synth and now I see how much I sucks . I really enjoy this round because this is real challenge for me (nothing works as I want it ). Well 2 fingers are still more then one. Thank you BJ for choosing this synth. Very useful lesson for me.

Quite hard to make percussion with this one. But I refuse to surrender. It is fourth day and Im still trying to make snare, kick and other percs sound usable.

Good luck everyone.

[d34dmeat]

here's my osc95 contribution
HY-mono synth

https://soundcloud.com/mikael-edlund/d3 ... tar-osc-95

10 intances of HY-mono
reaper daw
reacomp
reaverb
epicverb
slickHDR
BaxterEQ
TesslaSE
DensitymkIII

[RuediRena]

Guys, I got news from the hyakken thread:

Sorry for late reply.
I will update HY-Mono next.
Please wait for while.

Thank you.

This is great news, hyakken. Folks over at OSC will appreciate your effort dearly.

Greetings
Ruedi

So let's see what he comes up with and if it will be in time for the contest.