The Legend vs repro-1

[Coockie1176ln]

Maybe off topic,

but I cannot hear such analog magic in "The Legend". It for sure is a great synth, but Repro-1 simply sounds analog or whatever, kind of magic saturation or micro modulation, I don't know what it is, but I can hear it. Also the legend doesn't seem to sound so different to Dune 2. It sounds very clear and constant, maybe too constant for being a instant analogue-emulation.

Also I should do my work instead posting here pointless subjective opinions.

Its not pointless im sure people agree and disagree! Myself kinda agree! But you are not off topic. Still discuss both

[.jon]

Ironically, (as of course you know) Dave Smith didn't design all that much of the Pro-1 in any case because it uses the canonical "off the shelf" analogue modules of the day. I have immense respect for Dave Smith, however, I never thought that he was in the same class as Bob Moog, Doug Curtis, or Dave Rossum as an analogue designer. He was good at the systems level aspect and digital design, but all of the fundamental building blocks are made from CEM chips. It's not much different than building a SynthEdit synth from the standard blocks.

That's besides the point though, he still designed the instrument which is being emulated. And it's not like VST developers today are creating everything from scratch.

[Coockie1176ln]

it just appeared to me that you make a bit of snippy side blow on some other devs every once in a while.

That is true, but I am very selective as to who gets my stabs, and what for. Sometimes I may even have a high opinion on one department of a company but despise another one's actions. I also sometimes find some trends awkward, particularly in synth ui evolution (uhm, the opposite).

Urs an offtopic question! Among your plugins i want your opinion! Diva not modelled after any specific model and repro-1 that is which do you think you manage to recreate analoug quality off best? Also ive read people write repro-5? Will there come a plugin called repro-5? What modell will it be emulated after?

[Yorrrrrr]

Maybe off topic,

but I cannot hear such analog magic in "The Legend". It for sure is a great synth, but Repro-1 simply sounds analog or whatever, kind of magic saturation or micro modulation, I don't know what it is, but I can hear it. Also the legend doesn't seem to sound so different to Dune 2. It sounds very clear and constant, maybe too constant for being a instant analogue-emulation.

Also I should do my work instead posting here pointless subjective opinions.

Maybe a real Minimoog Model D doesn't have 'analog magic' either then... I wouldn't tell the difference between it and The Legend, reliably, if I was blind tested

[EnGee]

Not sure why this is an either-or question, both are totally different synths and both cost a tiny fraction of the corresponding vintage-analog hardware. In my mind it's a no brainer for fans of vintage-analog gear to simply get both.

Btw I briefly tested Repro-1, while we don't have the Pro-1 here as a direct reference we do have lots of Curtis filter chips on breadboards, and ihmo Repro-1 really nails that sound, so great job

Richard

Amen to that!

What a nice positive post

[exmatproton]

Not sure why this is an either-or question, both are totally different synths and both cost a tiny fraction of the corresponding vintage-analog hardware. In my mind it's a no brainer for fans of vintage-analog gear to simply get both.

Btw I briefly tested Repro-1, while we don't have the Pro-1 here as a direct reference we do have lots of Curtis filter chips on breadboards, and ihmo Repro-1 really nails that sound, so great job

Richard

Amen to that!

What a nice positive post

+1

[zerocrossing]

I'd be happy with just a great Prophet 5 emulation (with the usual appreciated performance extras that make the U-he stuff so damn useful ) but I'd pee my pants for something that also give a bit of VS functionality as well like Prophet V attempts. Actually, that's all I use Prophet V for, it's 5/VS mode, but just being able to swap out 5 oscillators for VS oscillators would probably be good enough for me. Doesn't really have to be "vector" synthesis.

I think this kind of illustrates the challenge every developer faces when doing any kind of emulation. It starts with a 1:1 emulation request, then folks say, stuff like:

1. Hey can you add a mod matrix? Done.
2. Can you add some effects? Done.
3. Can you add a sequencer? Done.
4. Can you add polyphony? Uhhh...
5. How about unison?
6. Vel to amp/filter?
7. A VS mode?

And I'm not trying to call you out, I'm definitely guilty of this too. It's just got to be hard to decide what to include/exclude, and where to stop. That one feature that you'd think would be really cool, might not matter at all to me and vice versa.

I don't envy Urs or other developers that deal with this.

I know, I'm super guilty of this, but at the same time it's why I praise U-He software over other software. Buying RePro-1 was a no-brainer, while, though I love the sound of it, I've never purchased Roland's SH-2 plug in. Just to make things clear, I've never called or polyphony on RePro-1 or really cared about it. I was all set to buy it based on the alpha and to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised to find the excellent effects included. I do understand that sacrifices have to be made to get something to sound as amazing as it does and still run on most computers. My VS mode request is more about me being disappointed that Arturia has yet to do an update that really does that instrument justice, even though it's capable of producing some cool sounds.

[zerocrossing]

Maybe off topic,

but I cannot hear such analog magic in "The Legend". It for sure is a great synth, but Repro-1 simply sounds analog or whatever, kind of magic saturation or micro modulation, I don't know what it is, but I can hear it. Also the legend doesn't seem to sound so different to Dune 2. It sounds very clear and constant, maybe too constant for being a instant analogue-emulation.

Also I should do my work instead posting here pointless subjective opinions.

Not pointless or off topic... but confusing. I'm not an analog purest by any means, and I do own a fair complement of actual analog hardware (none of it vintage) but it's hard to reconcile the fact that I can totally agree with you on your take of RePro-1, and at the same time wonder what you're thinking when describing Legend.

One thing I will say is, that in it's current state, Legend will sound "stiffer" than RePro-1 if you're a guy who likes to assign things to velocity and aftertouch. That's my take. I'm a guy who uses those on nearly... or maybe all, of my patches. Until Synapse adds those to Legend, (which he's said is on the list of to-dos) I'll probably mostly relagate it to playing back sequences with parameter automation and not use it for actual live work. That's just my style of playing. I got spoiled with digital instruments from the 90s and 00s and I have a hard time going backward in that regard.

[Urs]

No, that is not what I said or think. There's obviously tons of talent and skill involved in developing a VSTi plugin of this quality, but in the case of Repro-1 the synthesizer you copied was designed by Dave Smith. I know you understand the difference between these things. He deserves the credit for that sound you faithfully aim to recreate, he deserves the credit for creating the reputation of the original that fuels your plugin sales.

Well, I would love to plaster Dave's name all over this synth (and Doug's certainly too), but I'm sure I'd commit and act of copyright infringement if I did so, maybe even an act of unfair competition.

So yeah, unfortunately I can't

[Urs]

Not sure why this is an either-or question, both are totally different synths and both cost a tiny fraction of the corresponding vintage-analog hardware. In my mind it's a no brainer for fans of vintage-analog gear to simply get both.

Btw I briefly tested Repro-1, while we don't have the Pro-1 here as a direct reference we do have lots of Curtis filter chips on breadboards, and ihmo Repro-1 really nails that sound, so great job

Richard

Amen to that!

What a nice positive post

+2

[Urs]

I sometimes wonder if the inventors of pitch correction hate themselves for what they did to music. I also wonder if Bob Moog, Dave Smith and their colleagues are (or would be) appalled by the snobism that some collectors of analogue synths exhibit (explicitly: not all of them!). I wonder if they feel awkward when their inventions are used as status symbols. Or maybe they're proud, I don't know. Anyhow, my impression is that they(d) prefer their stuff to be used to make music. I think they(d) rather be proud of being cited, also because it puts their achievements into the hands of more talented musicians than ebay ever will.

[exmatproton]

I sometimes wonder if the inventors of pitch correction hate themselves for what they did to music. I also wonder if Bob Moog, Dave Smith and their colleagues are (or would be) appalled by the snobism that some collectors of analogue synths exhibit (explicitly: not all of them!). I wonder if they feel awkward when their inventions are used as status symbols. Or maybe they're proud, I don't know. Anyhow, my impression is that they(d) prefer their stuff to be used to make music. I think they(d) rather be proud of being cited, also because it puts their achievements into the hands of more talented musicians than ebay ever will.

I don't know about the others, but Bob seemed always quite down to earth about what he made and how he sold stuff. I think he would be amazed by the amount of progress made by dev's, like yourself Urs, in software synths.

I don't know if he would be appalled by current discussions about analog vs. digital and emulations vs. hardware. But i can imagine he would be.

[Urs]

Thing is, when I demoed Repro-1 to Dave Smith, he didn't seem concerned at all. He just wondered why someone would do that to themselves (as - if I remember that correctly - he told me it's easier to do hardware than software). We had a few drinks and lots of laughs.

[Coockie1176ln]

Urs

People been writing "looking forward for repro-5". Will there come a repro-5? What modell is it modelled after? or is it a joke because they wanted polyphony? confused

[exmatproton]

Thing is, when I demoed Repro-1 to Dave Smith, he didn't seem concerned at all. He just wondered why someone would do that to themselves (as - if I remember that correctly - he told me it's easier to do hardware than software). We had a few drinks and lots of laughs.

Well, it is easier (cheaper, less space consuming, 1 system to rule them all, etc...) to have everything in the box, imho. I sold hardware to go completely digital and itb. I think that is quite obvious and i would think Dave would get that as well...