KVR Audio

Chrisboy2000 · Post by **Chrisboy2000** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:43 pm

So if i want to make my own plugin i just need to buy JUCE, i no longer need to buy a licence for HISE ?

No. Of course you'll need to pay HISE licence fees if you want to create a plugin. All I was saying was that the additional JUCE licence fees (which were discussed here in this thread) are only due if you want to release your library as standalone plugin without the HISE Player.

If you make your library for the HISE Player, simply forget everything you read in this thread about GPL.

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:57 pm

Chrisboy2000 wrote:If you make your library for the HISE Player, simply forget everything you read in this thread about GPL.

This discussion is going nowhere. Chris, I propose you detail some likely scenarios and calculate some costs and results when you have a solid idea of the licensing fees.

Example 1: I'm a small developer. I will probably sell 15 copies of my $20 sample library in 3 months. How can I use HISE to make money?

Example 2: I'm a large developer, I don't need my own plugin. I want to sell a $100 library and I will probably sell 1000 copies over the next year. What are my fees?

Example 3: I'm a large developer, I want my own plugin for my line of products. I will have 5 products each selling for $100 each. I will probably sell a total of 5000 products over the next year. What are my fees?

This was never a discussion about GPL, it was a discussion of "how do I make money", let's address the actual problem. If you want to use HISE just to experiment, then you probably aren't reading this.

Chrisboy2000 · Post by **Chrisboy2000** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:16 pm

I propose you detail some likely scenarios and calculate some costs and results when you have a solid idea of the licensing fees.

Sure, will do.

padillac · Post by **padillac** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:44 pm

fwiw I think it looks cool, and am interested in seeing how it develops

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:57 pm

Architeuthis wrote:
Chrisboy2000 wrote:If you make your library for the HISE Player, simply forget everything you read in this thread about GPL.
This discussion is going nowhere. Chris, I propose you detail some likely scenarios and calculate some costs and results when you have a solid idea of the licensing fees.

Example 1: I'm a small developer. I will probably sell 15 copies of my $20 sample library in 3 months. How can I use HISE to make money?

Example 2: I'm a large developer, I don't need my own plugin. I want to sell a $100 library and I will probably sell 1000 copies over the next year. What are my fees?

Example 3: I'm a large developer, I want my own plugin for my line of products. I will have 5 products each selling for $100 each. I will probably sell a total of 5000 products over the next year. What are my fees?

This was never a discussion about GPL, it was a discussion of "how do I make money", let's address the actual problem. If you want to use HISE just to experiment, then you probably aren't reading this.

So you want the licence fee to be based on some guessed sales figures ?
Has the world gone mad or what ?
Decide a cost and tell us what it is, not "hey how much you think you will sell...hmmmmm, ok i want this"
This is total nonsense

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:23 am

Well to make a Kontakt player library you have to buy x number of licenses at an individually negotiated price and wait a long time for the library to get approved. When you run out of licenses you have to buy more based on future sales assumptions or stop selling the product. So not that out of line oddly.

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:14 am

bungle wrote:So you want the licence fee to be based on some guessed sales figures ?
Has the world gone mad or what ?
Decide a cost and tell us what it is, not "hey how much you think you will sell...hmmmmm, ok i want this"
This is total nonsense

I am creating scenarios, that's it. Not implying any form of licensing in my scenario.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:39 am

Actually it is oddly out of line bigcat1969
Why do people keep comparing this to Kontakt ?
It has much more in common with Synthedit or Synthmaker or even C++ itself.
Yes the HISE player may be comparable to Kontakt player, but compiling your own plugin is not, and that is the interesting product here.
You can not compile a plugin with Kontakt, no matter how much you pay NI, this is not a comparable feature.

So rather than this merry go round of nonsense that is currently being spouted by everybody and their sister, we need exact details and costs from the developer, nobody else.

Fixed price per HISE version or price per app (Exact cost)
If it is price per app, does that then cover updates of said app, does that include paid updates of said app or only free updates to said app.
Can HISE ever support add on sample packs or is that negated by the GPL for the reasons i mentioned earlier.
If price per app, does that include compiles per platform, or are they extra cost too ? (Win/OSX/IOS)

At the right prices and with the right support, this could easily be the most used development platform in audio.

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:11 pm

I'm guessing the thread title has something to do with the Kontakt comments?

I would argue that a Kontakt player library is de facto similar to a VSTi. Both are essentially stand alone instruments / libraries that require no additional purchase from the end user. Shoot if I could create player libraries I would never mess with making anything else.

I was just pointing out that there is a similar type model. I don't like that model, just that it exists.

In general I agree with you. If it is somewhat easy and intuitive to use, if it can output VSTis, if the pricing is reasonable and easy to understand, then it might be a significant development platform.

I've said elsewhere this reminds me of chats with certain Linux friends about all the ifs of if AAA games came out for Linux, if drivers came out immediately, endless if, Linux would beat Microsoft and Apple and become the dominate force. I've been hearing this for decades. Of course the world went mobile and Android beat them all, but that's another story...

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:59 pm

It is no wonder it reminds of Linux, anything like this that comes along for audio development ends up killed by one bit of nonsense or another 10k to licence the NI player for instance, so 99% of libraries are done without the player.
Same goes for this, right now if you charge people out of use then they are more likely to find some loophole in the GPL with a modded branch that supports add on sample packs and compiles with a bunch of default samples supplied by the community, the developer ends up screwed and development will grind to a halt.
This seems to be a never ending story in these areas, look at the Synthmaker fiasco, they bring on a new member to the team who only has interest in making money, now it is for making Robots hahaha

padillac · Post by **padillac** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:02 pm

I think we all get what you want to see at this point - specific details on pricing and licensing for developers.

So perhaps it's time to be patient and let the HISE dev (Chris?) think this through.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:05 pm

Are you saying that people should not discuss on a discussion forum ?

padillac · Post by **padillac** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:33 pm

I'm saying that the issue has been brought forth quite clearly, and while you're welcome to continue going on about it if you like, doing so won't change anything.

Architeuthis · Post by **Architeuthis** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:53 am

lol bungle... calm down dood.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:15 am

All we are doing is talking about issues, what exactly makes you think i am not calm ?
If potential users discussing issues have no chance of ever changing anything with this developer, thanks for letting us know padillac, i guess you already have previous issues with the developer that make you think this ?

HISE, an open source competitor to Kontakt